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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 October 2025
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Displaying 3681 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

A very good morning and welcome to the 23rd meeting in 2025 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have received no apologies this morning. Fulton MacGregor joins us online.

Our first item of business is the continuation of our inquiry into the harm caused by substance use in Scottish prisons. Today, we will take evidence from the main public bodies responsible for such matters, and I am pleased to welcome our witnesses. Leona Paget is prison healthcare lead, Falkirk health and social care partnership; Rhoda MacLeod is head of adult services, Glasgow city health and social care partnership; Linda Pollock is deputy chief executive, Scottish Prison Service; Sarah Angus is director of policy at the SPS; and Suzy Calder is head of health and wellbeing at the SPS.

I refer members to papers 1 to 3. I intend to allow up to two hours for this evidence session.

I will begin with an open question, starting with Leona Paget on my left and working my way across the panel. We have heard evidence that strategies do not always translate into a change in practice and that there are often issues with implementation. Can you set out how you intend to ensure that the necessary strategies are implemented? Indeed, is implementation possible, given the current prison population levels?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you. Katy Clark, are you interested in coming in?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

I have a couple of quick follow-up questions for Rhoda MacLeod and Linda Pollock.

Rhoda said that it is not always the case that what is happening in communities is replicated in prisons. We have heard that throughout our inquiry.

We talk about the public health approach that we are seeking to take to tackle substance use in Scotland. We want to make our strategies and policies fit with a public health approach that meets the needs of people who are impacted by substance use, but is that really being delivered in prisons? That may be a question for Linda, but I am interested in hearing from Rhoda because she brought up that issue.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Rhoda MacLeod wants to come in on that.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

It is helpful to understand that. There might be a delay, but it is not insurmountable, if you like.

I want to finish up with a couple of questions, and the first comes back to the focused day model. When we kicked off our meeting, Linda Pollock outlined where the focused day was going. To be a bit daft lassie, could you explain the terminology around regime and roster operational review? For the clarity of members, what does that mean?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Will that still mean that there is a likelihood that prisoners will be locked up for longer? Even though you are looking at how you can maximise the effectiveness of your staff deployment, is there still a risk that, inevitably, people will be locked up for longer than you would want?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

I have a final question about the MAT standards before I bring in Rona Mackay. Rhoda, the alcohol and drug recovery strategy rightly states that the implementation of MAT standards in prisons is a priority, with the aim, as I understand it, that that will be completed by April next year. We have heard evidence that that is quite an ambitious target, so I am interested in your view on whether that is realistic.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Rona Mackay, do you want to come in?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

There are no more questions from members and I do not see any of the panel members asking to say to say anything in conclusion. I thank everyone for their contributions to a really interesting meeting.

I suspend the meeting for five minutes to allow the panel members to leave before we consider a negative Scottish statutory instrument in public and then finally move into private session.

11:54 Meeting suspended.  

12:03 On resuming—  

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

That brings the public part of the meeting to a close. Next week, we will continue to take evidence as part of our inquiry into the harm caused by substance misuse in Scottish prisons.

12:04 Meeting continued in private until 12:50.