The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Audrey Nicoll
A very good morning to everyone, and welcome to the second meeting of the Criminal Justice Committee in 2023. There are no apologies this morning.
The first item of business is an oral evidence session on the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill. We have three panels joining us this morning. The witnesses on our first panel are Stuart Munro, convener of the criminal law committee of the Law Society of Scotland, who we hope is joining us online; Fred Mackintosh KC from the Faculty of Advocates; and Joanne McMillan, committee member of the Glasgow Bar Association. A very warm welcome to you all.
I refer members to papers 1 to 3. I intend to allow up to 75 minutes for this session. As time is tight, I ask, as ever, for succinct questions and responses.
On that note, I will move straight to questions and ask our panel a very general opening question. Section 1 of the bill relates to input from justice social work to inform bail decisions. I am interested in your views on whether courts are currently provided with sufficient information when they are taking decisions on bail and remand. That is a very general question to open up with. I will come to Fred Mackintosh first, then bring in Joanne McMillan, and then we will come to Stuart Munro.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Audrey Nicoll
For the record, the Crown is coming in next week to give evidence. Some of our discussion today has referenced that organisation. It will be interesting to hear some of its commentary.
Before I bring the session to a close, we have not really had a chance to cover part 2 of the bill. Our second panel of witnesses, who have joined us in the public gallery of the committee room this morning, may be interested in that. Before we finish, I would like to ask whether you have any specific views on part 2 of the bill in respect of release from prison—particularly Friday releases, the power to release early, and the key issue of release planning. I will do things in reverse order. I will bring in Stuart Munro first. I will then come to Joanne McMillan, and I will finish with Fred Mackintosh.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Audrey Nicoll
Just on the point about under-18s that you covered earlier, it is worth noting that the next bill that committee will deal with is the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill. There is a presumption in it to send under-18s to secure care and not prison. Obviously, we will look more closely at that issue down the line.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Audrey Nicoll
I will bring in Katy Clark and then Collette Stevenson. I ask people to watch the time.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Audrey Nicoll
Professor Loucks, would you like to respond?
11:45Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Audrey Nicoll
Our second panel consists of former sheriff David Mackie of Howard League Scotland; Professor Nancy Loucks, chief executive officer at Families Outside; and Ms Wendy Sinclair-Gieben, His Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons. I welcome you all. As with our first panel, I will move straight to questions, and I intend to allow about 60 to 80 minutes for this panel.
I will start with a general opening question on part 2, which relates to release from custody. I will come to Wendy Sinclair-Gieben first, then Professor Loucks and then David Mackie. With the aim of supporting the successful reintegration of prisoners into the community, the bill includes provisions on release planning and standards of throughcare support. Are the proposals helpful, and would you like to see any changes in the provisions?
Wendy, over to you.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Audrey Nicoll
Stuart, do you want to come in?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Audrey Nicoll
David, do you want to comment on that?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Audrey Nicoll
Not at all. I will bring in Katy Clark and then Fulton MacGregor, and then we will have to bring the session to a close.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Audrey Nicoll
I will move on to questions on the plans for release from custody. Sections 9 and 10 of the bill aim to support individuals’ successful integration back into the community. They have provisions relating to release planning and throughcare support for prisoners, and those provisions refer to Police Scotland. Police Scotland has a close relationship with the Scottish Prison Service on a range of issues, particularly at the point of release for an individual. In practice, what police input would you expect that is not taking place already? Given the point that Jamie Greene made about the impact on police resources, should the practice around that change?