The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 3 December 2025
Audrey Nicoll
I will pause you there, Debbie, if you do not mind, because I am keen to let members come in with questions.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 3 December 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Agnes would like to come in.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 3 December 2025
Audrey Nicoll
I will bring you back in if there is time at the end.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 3 December 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Thank you. That is a really helpful opening comment.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 3 December 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Thank you—that is helpful.
I will bring in Jamie Hepburn for a very brief, succinct question, followed by Liam Kerr and Pam Gosal. I ask you all for brief questions.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 3 December 2025
Audrey Nicoll
If there was an opportunity for you to share any additional information with the committee on the basis of that question, that would be helpful.
11:00Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 3 December 2025
Audrey Nicoll
In fairness, I think that we have covered quite a bit of where the witnesses feel that there would be scope to make changes to the bill, so I ask you all to keep your responses as brief as possible.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 3 December 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Our next item of business is consideration of the forthcoming Scottish Fire and Rescue Service reforms. As members may already be aware, we expect the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service to publish its proposals in the new year. Today, we have an opportunity to hear from the Fire Brigades Union its views on the proposed reforms. I intend to allow up to 60 minutes for this session.
I refer members to papers 5 and 6. I also note that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service’s annual report and accounts for 2024-25 have now been laid before Parliament; the clerks have circulated a copy to members in the normal manner.
I welcome, from the Fire Brigades Union, Colin Brown, executive council member for Scotland, and John McKenzie, Scottish regional secretary. You are both very welcome. I invite you to make some short opening remarks—over to you, Colin.
11:15Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 3 December 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Oh no! [Laughter.]
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 3 December 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Thank you—there was a lot for us to think about in your opening statement.
I was going to ask you about the service delivery review and what may come from it that you feel may be positive. However, I want to pick up on the reduction in firefighter numbers that you mentioned. I am interested in probing that a little more and looking further at the reasons for it.
A lot of organisations are seeing a change in their staff numbers as a result of all sorts of different things, such as the introduction of technology, artificial intelligence and innovation—and, in your case, fewer fires. Can you expand on where the cuts are coming from?