The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 27 September 2023
Audrey Nicoll
Finally, I call Katy Clark.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 27 September 2023
Audrey Nicoll
That was a helpful overview. I will now open up to questions. I ask members if, for the first part of our session, they could focus their questions on part 4 of the bill, which relates to the removal of the not proven verdict and a change to jury size.
I will open by asking a question on conviction rates. The cabinet secretary set out a pretty wide-ranging rationale for the provisions around removing the not proven verdict and changing jury sizes. Some of that relates to the fact that the public do not really understand those aspects of trials, and some of it is that they potentially retraumatise individuals. Can you give us some more detail of the thinking on how the changes might improve or change conviction rates in Scotland?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 27 September 2023
Audrey Nicoll
You mentioned that there is no other comparable system in which there are three verdicts. What happens elsewhere? Is a two-verdict model a common option in international models of justice? What happens in other jurisdictions, particularly in Europe? I am interested in that.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 27 September 2023
Audrey Nicoll
I call John Swinney, to be followed by Katy Clark.
Criminal Justice Committee, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)
Meeting date: 26 September 2023
Audrey Nicoll
Sue Webber has a very quick question.
Criminal Justice Committee, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)
Meeting date: 26 September 2023
Audrey Nicoll
I will bring in Russell Findlay. I apologise, Russell; I should have brought you in earlier. I know that you are interested in asking some questions around safe consumption rooms.
Criminal Justice Committee, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)
Meeting date: 26 September 2023
Audrey Nicoll
I wish you a very good morning, and welcome you to the second joint meeting in 2023 of members of the Criminal Justice Committee, the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee and the Social Justice and Social Security Committee, to consider the progress that has been made in implementing the recommendations of the Scottish Drug Deaths Taskforce.
We have received apologies from Paul O’Kane, who is attending a meeting of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee.
Before we begin, I place on record our thanks to Clare Haughey and Sue Webber for visiting Aberlour’s mother and child unit on our behalf, and for the helpful note that they provided of their meeting. I also thank Aberlour for facilitating the visit, and I particularly thank the two women who took the time to talk about their personal experiences. We are very grateful.
Agenda item 1 is a decision on taking business in private. Do members agree to take in private item 3, which is a review of today’s evidence?
Members indicated agreement.
Criminal Justice Committee, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)
Meeting date: 26 September 2023
Audrey Nicoll
Agenda item 2 is an evidence-taking session on tackling drug deaths and drug harm. I am pleased to warmly welcome to the meeting our first panel of witnesses. Kirsten Horsburgh is chief executive officer, and Wez Steele is senior training and development officer, at the Scottish Drugs Forum; Simon Rayner is service lead at Aberdeen alcohol and drug partnership; and Tracey McFall is chairperson of the Scottish Recovery Consortium. I refer members to papers 1 and 2 and thank witnesses who have provided written submissions.
We move straight to questions. As ever, I will open with a question just to set the scene and get the discussion under way.
I wonder whether panel members can give us a broad response to the statistics on drug-related deaths, on which there has been a lot of commentary and coverage. The most recent publication of the statistics shows a decline; according to those figures, which have been published by National Records of Scotland, 1,051 people died due to drug misuse in 2022. That is a decrease on the figure for 2021 and the lowest annual total since 2017. However, given that drug death numbers remain stubbornly high, I ask individual witnesses for their response to, and any commentary that they might have on, those recent statistics. Do you feel that we have perhaps started to turn the corner a bit?
I will start with Kirsten Horsburgh and then work across the panel.
Criminal Justice Committee, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)
Meeting date: 26 September 2023
Audrey Nicoll
We are coming to the final part of our session. Does Collette Stevenson want to come in?
Criminal Justice Committee, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)
Meeting date: 26 September 2023
Audrey Nicoll
Thank you very much. We might come back to some of the underlying factors that have led to a slight decrease.