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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Audrey Nicoll
I will bring in Rona Mackay before we move to questions on part 2 of the bill.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Audrey Nicoll
I will conclude that line of questioning.
For Ms Gosal’s benefit, I add that the practice across agencies that are responding to domestic abuse nowadays certainly does take into account the need to minimise trauma and, therefore, a lot of information sharing across organisations is done with consent. I share the concerns that Jamie Hepburn alluded to with regard to the risk that some of the data collection proposals in the bill might compromise trauma-informed approaches.
We move on to part 4, on school education, with questions from Katy Clark. Any other members who wish to ask questions on this theme can indicate that to the clerk.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Audrey Nicoll
The other part of my question related to the fact that existing processes do not necessarily require a criminal conviction for interventions to take place. Part 1 of the bill is obviously different in that regard. I am thinking back to Detective Superintendent Brown’s assertion that the fact that someone has a criminal conviction does not necessarily reflect the full or totality of the risk that someone may face. I am interested in your reflections on that point.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Audrey Nicoll
I am sorry, but I will have to close this down and draw a line under that questioning. We are very much over time, and I think that we have got the gist of the point about the variance in costing.
I thank our witnesses—Ms Gosal and her colleagues—for coming along to what has been a robust session, and we will now move into private session.
11:09 Meeting continued in private until 13:08.Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Audrey Nicoll
Staying with questions on part 1 of the bill, I will bring in Jamie Hepburn, to be followed by Pauline McNeill.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Audrey Nicoll
I will move things on as we have covered that point. I will bring in Pauline McNeill, to be followed by Rona Mackay. We remain on part 1 of the bill.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Audrey Nicoll
Yes, if you do not mind. I will bring you back in when you want to come back with that question.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Audrey Nicoll
If no members want to discuss part 2—I am not getting any indications—we will move on to part 3, which relates to data collection and reporting. You have alluded to that in your opening statement, Ms Gosal, and in your responses to questions.
I have a question about collecting data. In particular, can you clarify the purpose of collecting the data specified in the bill? Is it to improve services for victims, or is it about understanding the dynamics of domestic abuse more widely?
Could you also clarify something in section 24, which is that the phrase
“victims under the age of 16”
refers to children who are experiencing domestic abuse from a partner or ex-partner and to children who are victims of domestic abuse involving their parents? I would be interested to get a little bit more context on the proposition on data that you have made in the bill.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Audrey Nicoll
I want to stay with part 1, which you have just mentioned, and refer back to the evidence that we received on 10 December from Detective Superintendent Adam Brown of Police Scotland. He said that Police Scotland was not supportive of part 1 of the bill for a number of reasons, one of which was that the statutory management of part 1 might
“draw our focus ... away from some of the other processes”
that are already embedded in Police Scotland’s response to domestic abuse. I noted that, in your opening statement, you said that you challenged that assertion. Secondly, Detective Superintendent Brown said:
“A key difference between”
existing
“processes and the proposals in part 1 is that those other processes do not require a criminal conviction for interventions to take place.”
I certainly acknowledge that point as very important. Obviously, in any response, convictions are taken into account but, as Detective Superintendent Brown told us, they may not necessarily reflect
“the totality of risk that a perpetrator poses.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 10 December 2025; c 4, 5.]
Have you had time to reflect on Police Scotland’s comments and how you might amend part 1 of the bill to take account of its views? From a personal perspective, I think that they are important in this context and worth further consideration.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Audrey Nicoll
If I can press you on that point, I am interested in what rationale you think there is whereby introducing legislation would make a tangible difference to local authorities’ ability to improve and expand existing rehabilitation services.