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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 May 2025
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Displaying 3930 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Audrey Nicoll

I am pleased to say that we have a new group of officials. We still have Nicola Guild and Heather Reece Wells with us, and we are now joined by Andrew Baird and Carole Robinson—welcome to you.

We will pick up where we left off and move on to parts 5 and 6.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Audrey Nicoll

We still have three more members who want to come in on part 4, so I will bring in Katy Clark and then Pauline McNeill.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you very much, indeed, cabinet secretary. I want to pick up on your final point, which was in relation to the proposals around jury size and the jury majority requirement. In your helpful and detailed correspondence, you stated that, as you set out in your opening remarks, you will

“seek support for a model with two verdicts, fifteen jurors, and a two thirds majority requirement for conviction.”

Can you give more detail on why you are looking at that particular model and on what has been raised by stakeholders and other interested parties that has led to it being the preferred model?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Audrey Nicoll

That is most appreciated. We will have a short suspension to allow for a changeover of officials.

11:23 Meeting suspended.  

11:25 On resuming—  

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you very much for your forbearance. For the record, we are now joined by Simon Stockwell, Heather Reece Wells and Sarah Crawford, who are the Government officials accompanying the cabinet secretary. We will go straight to parts 1, 2 and 3 of the bill.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Audrey Nicoll

I will take the liberty of asking a final question that perhaps relates to trauma-informed practice. As I said earlier, one of the issues that was raised during stage 1 was about access to court transcripts for complainers. You helpfully wrote to the committee recently to say that the pilot for providing free transcripts for complainers in High Court sexual offences cases is to be extended for a further 12 months, which is welcome. We are aware that some campaigners have suggested that the bill might be an opportunity to make the pilot permanent. What are your views on that suggestion?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Super. Thank you for that positive response.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Audrey Nicoll

We need to change officials, so just bear with me.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Audrey Nicoll

That is no problem.

As there are no more questions on part 4, we will have a short suspension to allow for a changeover of officials.

10:55 Meeting suspended.  

10:57 On resuming—  

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Audrey Nicoll

A very good morning, and welcome to the seventh meeting in 2025 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have received no apologies.

Our first item of business is evidence from the Scottish Government on its plans to amend the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill before we begin consideration of amendments to the bill at stage 2 on 12 March.

I am pleased that we are joined this morning by Angela Constance, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs, and Scottish Government officials, including Heather Reece Wells and Lisa McCloy from the criminal justice reform unit and Nicola Guild from the legal directorate. Welcome to you all. Throughout the morning, as our discussion moves between different parts of the bill, the officials supporting the cabinet secretary will change, so we might need to have a couple of brief suspensions to allow that to happen. Thank you all for taking the time to attend the meeting.

I refer members to papers 1 and 2. I intend to allow about 90 minutes for the session. I will structure questioning by focusing on part 4 of the bill first, then parts 5 and 6 and, finally, parts 1 to 3. I invite the cabinet secretary to make some opening remarks.