Chamber and committees

I was going to move on to the cross-Government action plan but there is a lot to cover so, if we have time, I will come back to that. We will instead move on to some questions on safe consumption rooms, which is no surprise. I will bring in Sue Webber.

I will bring you back in if we have time, Russell, but next I will bring in Katy Clark on the issue of law reform and then we will move to questions on MAT standards. I am watching the time. Is everyone happy to stay on a little bit beyond 10.30? I am loth to cut things off when such helpful discussions are going on.

Do any other folks want to come in on that?

I wish you a very good morning, and welcome you to the second joint meeting in 2023 of members of the Criminal Justice Committee, the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee and the Social Justice and Social Security Committee, to consider the progress that has been made in implementing the recommendations of the Scottish Drug Deaths Taskforce.

We have received apologies from Paul O’Kane, who is attending a meeting of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee.

Before we begin, I place on record our thanks to Clare Haughey and Sue Webber for visiting Aberlour’s mother and child unit on our behalf, and for the helpful note that they provided of their meeting. I also thank Aberlour for facilitating the visit, and I particularly thank the two women who took the time to talk about their personal experiences. We are very grateful.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on taking business in private. Do members agree to take in private item 3, which is a review of today’s evidence?

Members indicated agreement.

Agenda item 2 is an evidence-taking session on tackling drug deaths and drug harm. I am pleased to warmly welcome to the meeting our first panel of witnesses. Kirsten Horsburgh is chief executive officer, and Wez Steele is senior training and development officer, at the Scottish Drugs Forum; Simon Rayner is service lead at Aberdeen alcohol and drug partnership; and Tracey McFall is chairperson of the Scottish Recovery Consortium. I refer members to papers 1 and 2 and thank witnesses who have provided written submissions.

We move straight to questions. As ever, I will open with a question just to set the scene and get the discussion under way.

I wonder whether panel members can give us a broad response to the statistics on drug-related deaths, on which there has been a lot of commentary and coverage. The most recent publication of the statistics shows a decline; according to those figures, which have been published by National Records of Scotland, 1,051 people died due to drug misuse in 2022. That is a decrease on the figure for 2021 and the lowest annual total since 2017. However, given that drug death numbers remain stubbornly high, I ask individual witnesses for their response to, and any commentary that they might have on, those recent statistics. Do you feel that we have perhaps started to turn the corner a bit?

I will start with Kirsten Horsburgh and then work across the panel.

Thank you. Collette Stevenson, did you want to come in with a follow-up?

Sue Webber has a very quick question.

I will bring in Russell Findlay. I apologise, Russell; I should have brought you in earlier. I know that you are interested in asking some questions around safe consumption rooms.

I want to make progress. If I have time, I will come back to Martin Whitfield.

The committee heard about the pivotal role of education in safeguarding children online. NSPCC Scotland told us about the

“lifelong benefits for children and young people by teaching them about healthy and positive relationships, empowering them to recognise abuse”,

while Wendy Hart of the National Crime Agency spoke of the importance of educating parents on engaging with children in a way that avoids blame.

Stuart Allardyce spoke of the support that Stop It Now! offers individuals who are worried about their sexual thoughts and feelings towards children. He also spoke of the learning, from work with individuals who have committed sexual offences, that has been taken to develop prevention resources and stop sexual abuse before it happens.

In March, Stop It Now! published a report on the impact on partners, children and families after a loved one has been arrested for an online sexual offence. The organisation found that families, who are secondary victims of the crime, typically become aware of offending behaviour when the police arrive at the family home—a time that is known as “the knock”. Family members can experience post-traumatic stress and feelings of guilt or shame, with little or no access to support. Police Scotland’s online campaign #GetHelpOrGetCaught has seen significant success in signposting to Stop It Now! individuals who recognise that their behaviour is concerning.

NSPCC Scotland spoke of the importance of children as experts in this space. They understand the emerging risks that they face and have a key role in developing constructive solutions.

On policy and legislation, the committee heard that there remains a lack of understanding of the scale and nature of child sexual exploitation in Scotland. The Scottish Government has acknowledged the need to improve data collection and is working with analysts and partners to make improvements in that regard. The committee understands that work is under way involving Police Scotland, the Scottish Government and the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service to consider legislative gaps, including around the growing incidents of self-generated images of children.

Witnesses called for an overarching sexual harm strategy for Scotland. Social Work Scotland said:

“The National Guidance for Child Protection in Scotland 2021 provides a context for tackling issues within the current child protection processes. However, the complexity and continued development of online concerns and increased level of risk for children and young people means that a specific, national, multi-agency strategy would be beneficial for services. Any strategy would need to evolve and develop as new and emerging risks are identified.”

I would appreciate the minister’s views on that proposal. The organisation also asked for a nationally funded training programme. It said:

“Online harm is a challenging and fast changing context and social work services must continue to develop the skills and knowledge to assess and respond to online risk. A nationally funded training programme and for a for shared learning would support local areas to maintain expertise and knowledge in a specialist area of practice.”

The committee also wrote to the Scottish Government about the proposal for a sexual harm strategy. However, the Government has indicated that it does not consider that one is required at this time.

The Online Safety Bill, which, as members will know, was passed earlier this week, creates a provision to protect against risks and harms online, with particular reference to children and young people. The Criminal Justice Committee has engaged with Ofcom and will host a briefing for MSPs so that they can learn more about Ofcom’s role in the context of the new legislation. I invite and encourage all members to attend.

I am grateful that we are debating this complex and emerging issue, and I look forward to hearing the contributions of colleagues on how we collectively tackle online child sexual abuse in Scotland.

I thank John Swinney for a valid question, which I will come on to.

I commend Stuart Allardyce from Stop It Now! Scotland for his insightful evidence, in which he described three key components to prevent online harm. The first is safety by design, which he called

“the stuff that tech companies need to take on board and which the ... Online Safety Bill is driving.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 31 May 2023; c 8.]

The second is effective messaging for young people and parents, and the final one is perpetrator-focused prevention.

On safety by design, witnesses spoke of the need for tech companies to prioritise children’s safety by building platforms that are safe for children. The witnesses want duties to be placed on tech companies to prevent children from accessing harmful material; to co-operate with law enforcement agencies to identify child sexual abuse; and to implement robust age-assurance measures.

Daljeet Dagon from Barnardo’s Scotland said:

“we have spent too long expecting children to protect themselves and to take responsibility for the abuse and harm ... they suffer and encounter. It is about time that we made technology organisations and companies take much more responsibility for preventing abuse from happening in the first place”.—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 31 May 2023; c 8.]