The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 7 February 2024
Audrey Nicoll
We will move on to part 6 of the bill, which contains the proposals for a pilot of juryless trials. As usual, I will kick off our questions.
Cabinet secretary, you will be aware of the concerns that have been raised about the proposed pilot of rape trials without juries. For example, the Faculty of Advocates has indicated that it strongly opposes such a pilot, stating that the rights of the accused would be compromised, and the Scottish Solicitors Bar Association has said that it will not take part. I am interested in your response to the concerns that have been expressed, and in whether you have had an opportunity for any engagement or discussions with some of the bodies that have been particularly opposed to the proposal.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 7 February 2024
Audrey Nicoll
We have had a long session, so I will move on to the other parts of part 6, on lifelong anonymity for survivors and independent legal representation.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 7 February 2024
Audrey Nicoll
We have to move on. If there is time at the end, I am happy to come back to members who have further questions on part 4 of the bill.
We move on to part 5, which contains the provisions that relate to the creation of a sexual offences court. Cabinet secretary, you will be aware that, last week, Lord Matthews gave evidence to the committee during which he said:
“The judiciary is, broadly speaking, in favour of the proposal for a sexual offences court. We agree with the thinking of and the conclusions drawn by Lady Dorrian’s review group, for the various reasons that she has set out. Despite a number of statutory interventions over the years and the best efforts of everyone involved, the pace of change has been glacial, and we have not been able to effect the cultural change that we think is needed, because reform has been piecemeal.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 31 January 2024; c 21]
We have, of course, heard other concerns about the proposals on resourcing, sentencing powers and the ability of the Lord Justice General to remove judges. Have you had an opportunity to reflect on the evidence that we have heard, and are you able to provide some reassurance on the concerns that have been raised?
Meeting of the Parliament
Meeting date: 7 February 2024
Audrey Nicoll
In recent weeks, we have seen more of the same from the fallout of Brexit. A trade deal with Canada has broken down and, although new import controls have constrained Scotland, our neighbours and friends in Northern Ireland, who also voted to remain in the European Union, get a completely different deal. Over the weekend, we have also seen that, because of Brexit, even a former Scottish Labour leader voted for the Scottish National Party during the European elections. Does the minister agree that that demonstrates not only that the Tory UK Government is making up its Brexit policy as it goes along but that Labour cannot be trusted to stand up for Scotland on this highly important issue?
Meeting of the Parliament
Meeting date: 7 February 2024
Audrey Nicoll
To ask the Scottish Government how it is supporting the growth of international exports. (S6O-03058)
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 February 2024
Audrey Nicoll
I will bring in Sharon Dowey.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 February 2024
Audrey Nicoll
I will stay on the topic of rape myths and juries. You say in your submission that there is no evidence that juries act on those myths or that they fail to try the accused on the basis of the evidence presented. Will you please expand on why your members believe that to be the case? What evidence are you referring to?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 February 2024
Audrey Nicoll
I have a final question on rape myths. I am sure that your members have followed the evidence that the committee has taken on rape myths, not just in committee meetings but in written submissions and in research that we are aware of. A strong body of evidence appears to suggest that rape myths exist and are problematic. As you will understand, we are working with a broad church of views. Given the evidence that we have received—that there is such a thing as rape myths—what would be your members’ position on what the committee should consider in addressing that issue?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 February 2024
Audrey Nicoll
Okay. You might not know this off the top of your head, but how many criminal defence lawyers are there in Scotland?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 February 2024
Audrey Nicoll
Thank you. That is helpful background information.
I will bring in Sharon Dowey and then Russell Findlay. I ask you to make your questions fairly succinct.