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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 November 2025
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Displaying 4406 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

For the record, I clarify that we received the letter that you sent earlier this week, which provides an update on previously passed legislation, including the Children (Scotland) Act 2020, the Vulnerable Witnesses (Criminal Evidence) (Scotland) Act 2019 and the Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) Act 2021. That correspondence is now available online.

With that, I draw the session to a close. I thank the cabinet secretary and her officials for joining us.

There will be a short suspension to allow a changeover of witnesses.

11:32 Meeting suspended.  

11:38 On resuming—  

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing and Mental Health

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Our next agenda item is an evidence session on His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland’s report, “Policing Mental Health in Scotland—A Thematic Review”. I am pleased to welcome Craig Naylor, chief inspector with His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland; Mr Brian McInulty, lead inspector with HMICS; and Dr Arun Chopra, medical director at the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland and HMICS advisory group member. A warm welcome to you all.

I refer members to papers 3 and 4. I intend to allow up to an hour for this session. I invite the chief inspector to make some opening remarks.

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing and Mental Health

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Dr Chopra, the Mental Welfare Commission published a report on “The role of police officers in mental health support: a review of repeated uses of police place of safety powers under the Mental Health Act”. In your key findings, you state:

“Rates of conversion from all s297 detentions to emergency or short-term detention are about 15%. This is about three times higher than the rate among those being repeatedly detained under s297 which is at 5.34%.”

I know from my past experience that recourse to a place of safety is not an uncommon course of action for police officers, so that figure of just above 5 per cent is incredible. Could you say a bit more about that particular finding?

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing and Mental Health

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

I completely agree with that. I would like to ask lots of follow-up questions, but a good number of members want to come in.

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing and Mental Health

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Quite a number of members want to come in. I know that that is a crucial issue, but perhaps I can bring in Jackie Dunbar and then Fulton MacGregor.

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing and Mental Health

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

I beg your pardon. Sorry, Mr McInulty.

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing and Mental Health

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

I apologise for my lapse. I bring in Fulton MacGregor.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Our next item of business is to continue to take evidence on the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill. I remind members that we are at stage 1 of the committee’s scrutiny of the bill. Today, we will focus on parts 1 to 3 of the bill.

I am pleased to welcome to the meeting the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs, Angela Constance, and Scottish Government officials. Heather Tully is from the criminal justice reform unit, criminal justice division; Lucy Smith is from the victims and witnesses unit, criminal justice division; Simon Stockwell is from the family law policy unit, civil law and legal system division; and Kirsty Anderson is a solicitor in the legal directorate.

I refer members to papers 1 and 2. I intend to allow around 90 minutes for this session.

I invite the cabinet secretary to make an opening statement.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you very much, cabinet secretary.

We will move on to questions. I intend to invite questions on part 1 of the bill first. We will then move on to parts 2 and 3 in turn.

I will begin with a general question on part 1, which proposes the establishment of a victims commissioner. We have heard mixed views on that proposal. Some witnesses are clearly very supportive of it, but others have raised concerns about, for example, whether that is the best use of limited resources, whether we need another commissioner, and a possible conflict with the role of the Lord Advocate. I ask the cabinet secretary for her reflections on some of the concerns that have been raised.

Criminal Justice Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Good morning, and welcome to the 30th meeting in 2023 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have apologies from John Swinney. I welcome Jackie Dunbar to the meeting as a committee substitute.

Our first agenda item is to decide whether to take item 5 in private. Do members agree to do so?

Members indicated agreement.