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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 January 2026
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Displaying 4572 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Good morning, and welcome to the 19th meeting in 2024 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have received no apologies.

Our business today is to continue our evidence taking on the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1.

I welcome to the meeting the Rt Hon Lady Elish Angiolini KC, who joins us remotely. We are grateful to her for agreeing to provide evidence to the committee.

I refer members to papers 1 and 2. I intend to allow up to 60 minutes for this evidence session.

I have an opening question, Lady Elish. Since you produced your review of the police complaints process in 2020, the Scottish Government has introduced the bill that we are currently scrutinising. There have also been high-profile cases involving complaints and matters such as vetting, such as the Gemma MacRae decision in Scotland and the Sarah Everard case in England. Will the bill as it is currently drafted make the difference that you would like to see? Alternatively, do changes or improvements need to be made to it? If so, how?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you. That is an interesting perspective.

I will now open up questions to members. I will bring in Russell Findlay and then Sharon Dowey.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

I will come back to you, Sharon, if we have time, which is very limited.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

We are just coming up to time. Thank you, Lady Elish, for joining us today. That was a very interesting and informative session, and I very much appreciate it.

10:55 Meeting continued in private until 11:03.  

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

I wonder whether I could follow up a line of questioning from Pauline McNeill about misconduct proceedings relating to former officers. In its review of the process of police officer dismissals in 2023, the Home Office notes that the process of continuing misconduct proceedings against former officers

“is an expensive, time-consuming process which draws forces’ resources away from dealing with those individuals who are still serving.”

I am interested in your views on that conclusion and your reflections on why it is important that there is a provision in the bill on misconduct proceedings against former officers.

10:45  

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

That is interesting. I have a final, quick question from Rona Mackay, and then we will have to draw the session to a close.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

As we have been considering the bill, I have found myself becoming interested in what brings a police officer or member of staff into the process, whether it is in relation to a complaint against them or an allegation of misconduct. What is it about the demands of the job, the environment or the circumstances that results in them ending up in that conduct space?

Pauline McNeill spoke about a relatively high number of incidents involving allegations of police assault. Given your longevity in the world of justice, I am very interested in your observations on what is pressing down on police officers or staff that puts them in a position where they are facing a complaint or an allegation of misconduct. It is a big question, but I am interested in what the societal factors might be.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

That is a comprehensive and helpful opening response.

I would like to stay with the statutory duty of candour that is included in the bill, on which you have set out your views. The Scottish Government has chosen to introduce that duty in the bill, but not a duty of co-operation or a duty to provide the Police Investigation and Review Commissioner with a statutory power to compel officers to attend for interview within a reasonable timescale, as your review recommended. Do you agree with the position that the Government has taken? Is the way in which the duty of candour has been laid out in the bill sufficient to ensure the level of co-operation that would be required to allow investigations to be undertaken and concluded timeously?

Meeting of the Parliament

Portfolio Question Time

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

It is very welcome that the Scottish Government remains committed to expanding free school meal availability. Can the cabinet secretary provide an update on what assessment the Scottish Government has made of the rate of uptake of free school meals? Can she say any more about what steps can be taken to maximise uptake?

Meeting of the Parliament

Portfolio Question Time

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

To ask the Scottish Government when the Scottish Funding Council’s subject price groups for higher education were last reviewed. (S6O-03436)