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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 13 November 2025
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Displaying 4390 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament

Portfolio Question Time

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

I thank the cabinet secretary for his update on discussions with local health and social care partnerships. Will he provide an update on the impact of the Scottish Government’s national urgent and unscheduled care collaborative in supporting the treatment of minor injuries?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Good morning, and welcome to the 21st meeting of the Criminal Justice Committee in 2024. We have no apologies. Fulton MacGregor is joining us online.

Our business today is to continue our stage 1 evidence taking on the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome Craig Naylor, His Majesty’s chief inspector of constabulary in Scotland, and thank him for agreeing to give evidence to the committee and for his written submission. I refer members to papers 1 and 2. I intend to allow up to 60 minutes for this evidence session.

I will open with a general question about culture. Lady Elish Angiolini’s reports into the handling processes for complaints about the police were published in 2019 and 2020 and contain a number of recommendations to improve the culture in Police Scotland. You also reported on the findings of your inspection of the organisational culture in Police Scotland in December last year and I was interested to note a couple of your general findings, the first of which was:

“We found a consensus that the service is on a journey of change and improvement, heading in a more positive direction than previously, and that culture is dramatically different from the early days of Police Scotland.”

I also noted a finding about leadership behaviour. You wrote:

“Police Scotland is planning and undertaking a number of initiatives to embed appropriate leadership behaviours, attitudes and values at all levels in the service.”

I am interested to hear your opening thoughts about the impact of the implementation of the recommendations that have been made, specifically regarding improvements that have already been made and leadership. Does the extensive work that you have done suggest that Police Scotland has provided the required culture change?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you for that. I will open up the questioning to other members.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

There is a proposal in the bill about the PIRC calling in complaints in certain circumstances. In your submission, you are supportive of the PIRC having a statutory power to take over an investigation if that is deemed to be necessary. Will you outline your thinking behind that, including why you are supportive of it? We had strong evidence on that yesterday from the SPA.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

I think that I am right in saying that the federation took the view that former colleagues can be harder on others. Have you thought about that?

10:45  

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

We move to questions from Rona Mackay and then Pauline McNeill.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

We are coming up to the end of our time, but I have a final question that relates to the provision in the bill regarding hearings related to gross misconduct being held in public.

You have done a lot of work to look at mental health and wellbeing, not just with regard to the demand on police officers and staff from that growing area of operational delivery but with regard to their own health and wellbeing.

Should that provision be enacted, what needs to be put in place to make sure that the mental wellbeing of those involved is considered and prioritised? I am interested in your views on that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you—that is very helpful.

It has been a really informative session, and I thank you for your time. We are a wee bit over time, so I will finish things there.

11:05 Meeting continued in private until 11:11.  

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

I have a final follow-up question. Notwithstanding the timescales that are potentially involved where there is a criminal case followed by a misconduct process, do you think that the bill goes far enough to address the issue of timescales? That is quite a big question, but it comes up all the time, both generally in relation to complaints and conduct processes, and in the context of the bill.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Thanks for that helpful scene setting. Are you confident that the code of ethics and the duty of candour, to take just two of the bill’s provisions, will support some of the delivery of the work that you have comprehensively set out?