The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 26 February 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Super. Thank you for that positive response.
Meeting of the Parliament
Meeting date: 26 February 2025
Audrey Nicoll
The cabinet secretary will be aware of the interest that the Criminal Justice Committee has taken in officer and staff mental wellbeing. Although it is clear that a lot of progress has been made in that area, will she outline any further detail on access to support for officers and staff that is of a more specialist nature and that goes beyond the early preventative role?
Meeting of the Parliament
Meeting date: 20 February 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Since this parliamentary session began, the challenges that the justice system faces have featured prominently in chamber business. Justice touches absolutely everyone. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
Back in 2022, the new strategy, “Vision for Justice in Scotland: three year delivery plan”, set out the timely and welcome approach that was being taken across Scotland to grasp the nettle of reforming our justice system so that it meets the needs of a modern and contemporary Scotland. Scotland’s prison population remains among the highest, per capita, in western Europe, and front and centre of virtually every debate on the subject in this parliamentary session has been the need to reduce that population.
We understand the factors behind the stubborn upward trend. Many members have referenced the complexities of the prison population, longer sentences and the unrelenting legacy of Covid. Those factors are not unique to Scotland, but meaningful and sustained change has been difficult to achieve.
Although I support modernisation of our prison estate, I strongly disagree that creating more prison space as part of the solution to the current prison population challenge fits remotely with a contemporary justice system.
Meeting of the Parliament
Meeting date: 20 February 2025
Audrey Nicoll
I will not, if Liam Kerr does not mind, as I am short of time.
In response, Scotland has undertaken a range of proactive steps, including a broadening out of community justice, interventions, the presumption against short-term prison sentences, and the enactment of the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Act 2023 to support more effective use of bail and more effective release planning. The provisions in the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Act 2024 that ensure that under-18s are no longer sent to prison are also hugely welcome. I agree entirely with Rona Mackay’s comments with regard to community custody units that aim to effectively support women as they transition out of a prison environment and back into the community.
On the forthcoming budget for 2025-26, I am pleased to see the Scottish Government’s commitment to strengthening community justice services through an investment of almost £160 million, and I urge all members to support the budget next week. We cannot call out perceived failures in the system on the one hand without supporting the solutions on the other.
I note the comments of Dr Hannah Graham and her academic colleagues in their submission to the Criminal Justice Committee relating to the recent early release of prisoners. They said that
“the prison population and jail conditions are important issues which have been raised for decades. It will take political will, moral courage, resources, and action on several fronts to achieve meaningful change.”
I therefore welcome the cabinet secretary’s update on an independent review of sentencing and penal policy to examine how custodial sentences and community interventions can be used to best effect, including, importantly, whether and how they can be developed further.
I am also delighted to hear that Martyn Evans will chair the commission. He will bring a wealth of insight and experience to his role, as will the other commissioners who have been referenced today, and I do not think for one second that he will simply tell the cabinet secretary what she wants to hear.
The cabinet secretary noted that the review will focus initially on community sentencing, bail and release from custody. However, I hope that the issues around remand are also included as part of that early work. Perhaps, in her closing remarks, the cabinet secretary can jog my memory about whether remand is to be included.
I support all proposals to enable Scotland to continue on its journey towards a reformed and effective justice system. I welcome the announcement and look forward to following the progress of the review.
16:05Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)
Meeting date: 20 February 2025
Audrey Nicoll
The people’s panel recommended
“a guaranteed and protected five year minimum period of funding for community and third sector services”.
That theme has been discussed across the Parliament this year. Can you provide the committee with more detail on the fairer funding pilot scheme that you mention in your response to the people’s panel report? Does the Scottish Government intend to go a wee bit further than its current commitment of providing funding and grants for two years?
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)
Meeting date: 20 February 2025
Audrey Nicoll
In your response, you refer to data sharing, which is a crucial part of the effectiveness of referral and other processes. I am interested in hearing a wee bit more detail on what you are looking to do to improve data-sharing mechanisms and the robustness of the data that is collected.
10:30Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)
Meeting date: 20 February 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Good morning. My question touches on points that were raised earlier, particularly by Helen Douglas and Alison Weir. It is all very well for things to be in place, but are they working properly? Perhaps this is an opportunity for us to look under the bonnet a wee bit, to see what needs to change.
James Allan, your report made three recommendations under the justice and law reform theme. One said that
“All services should be able to refer to each other”
and that funding should be provided to support that. I am interested in hearing about any evidence that that is not currently taking place. What are the barriers and obstacles to that happening properly?
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)
Meeting date: 20 February 2025
Audrey Nicoll
The people’s panel recommended that
“All services should be able to refer to each other”
and that funding should be in place to allow that to happen. You said that you listened to the evidence from the previous panel, where there was discussion about the services in local areas not necessarily being connected in the way that they need to be. We welcome the Government’s response to that recommendation, which states:
“We will explore this further to better understand the specific barriers the court service and police have in referring to third sector organisations.”
Can you provide the committee with a wee bit more detail on what that will involve?
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)
Meeting date: 20 February 2025
Audrey Nicoll
That is super. Thank you. We might be able to come back to that if there is time later in the session.
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)
Meeting date: 20 February 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Thank you for that comprehensive response, cabinet secretary. You mentioned the national drugs mission funds, and I note that the five-year commitment is very welcome. The funds are administered by the Corra Foundation and they offer multiyear funding to third sector and grass-roots organisations. Can you say more about the plans for the future of that very welcome and important five-year funding provision?