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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 February 2026
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Displaying 914 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 29 January 2026

Angus Robertson

No, I would not have, for the reasons that Kenneth Hogg has explained. Because of the serious nature of the investigations that were on-going and the people whom I would have been meeting—at which time, no doubt, those types of issues would have been brought up—it would have been deeply compromising for me as cabinet secretary. So, no, it would not have been appropriate.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 29 January 2026

Angus Robertson

Yes.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 29 January 2026

Angus Robertson

It would be unfair to suggest that the Scottish Government was not involved—officials attended board meetings, among other things. That is a matter of record, and there is a full list. Again, I am happy to share that with the committee, so that it is aware that there was contact with officials.

Given the responsibilities that I had and have as cabinet secretary, it would be inappropriate for me to have attended a board meeting. Mr Halcro Johnston may wish to extrapolate from that that it would have been inappropriate for officials not to be engaged basis with HES. As Mr Hogg has pointed out, they were involved on a daily, if not almost daily, basis. That is the appropriate way in which the Scottish Government has been interacting.

On my role and responsibilities, and how I have acted since, I am not saying that this is uncomplicated or tremendously easy. It is a very difficult judgment call at all stages. With the benefit of hindsight, are there things that could or should have been done differently? All I know is that, as Mr Hogg has said, we literally exhausted our options in relation to a number of interventions, particularly in relation to the accountable officer. We fulfilled our responsibility to try to ensure that an accountable officer was in place, and we can be pleased that the accountable officer is at her post and doing her job.

Are there things that we will learn about when we reflect on the committee’s findings and the external investigation that is under way with Historic Environment Scotland?

Yes. Maybe some people, when they are able to read about the nature of the investigations that have been taking place, will have greater sympathy for and understanding of the ethical issues and the issues of probity. In relation to whether a cabinet secretary should attend the likes of a board meeting with such investigations being under way, they may have a much clearer vision of why my decision was undisputedly the right one to take.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 29 January 2026

Angus Robertson

I do.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 29 January 2026

Angus Robertson

I am pleased that progress is being made in turning the situation around in Historic Environment Scotland. Under new leadership, the board is playing its part in doing that. There are also new members of the board, and there is a new chief operating officer.

Under its new leadership and following the reporting of internal investigations, I am confident that Historic Environment Scotland will be in a profoundly different place from where it was before. However, I will not generalise about the entire board, the entire senior leadership team or the chief executive.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 29 January 2026

Angus Robertson

I have confidence that the board is heading in the right direction under the chairmanship of Sir Mark Jones.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 29 January 2026

Angus Robertson

Mr Hogg is looking for a note. I do not have a date to hand or in my mind, Mr Bibby; I would have to look back. You cannot see him doing it as you are joining the meeting remotely, so I will describe it for your benefit: Mr Hogg is looking at some email traffic to get some insight into that.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 29 January 2026

Angus Robertson

No.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 29 January 2026

Angus Robertson

It is not the former Labour MEP for the Lothians, Vice-President of the European Parliament and one of Mr Bibby’s Scottish Labour Party colleagues. We are talking about the former local authority chief executive. His review began on 19 January.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 29 January 2026

Angus Robertson

No, that was beforehand, convener—