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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 2524 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Angus Robertson

I do not think that I have any meetings at the present time. However, as I have always said, I am open to dialogue with trade unions in any circumstance. I am aware that the trade unions have been involved in relation to some of the internal matters, which, as Mr Bibby will appreciate, I cannot go into in any level of detail. The trade unions’ locus, as I understand it, is in relation to their members as part of the staff team at Historic Environment Scotland.

I am not aware of any request for a meeting with the unions. They will appreciate that on these HR issues the locus is not mine. Mr Bibby will understand that. I do not want to give him the impression that I am against meeting with trade unions, especially where there are distressed circumstances. I am not against that, if it is felt that it is appropriate. However, there has never been a suggestion from them that they would wish to meet me, given that I do not have that direct locus in the issues that they are raising.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Angus Robertson

I want to give Mr Brown total assurance about my personal interest in, and the Government’s interest in, ensuring that organisations that have commercial potential are able to secure additional and sustainable funding streams. Forgive me—I am looking for the number, which is not at the top of my head. Historic Environment Scotland now has commercial income of north of £70 million annually, which is significantly more than it has been in recent years. HES is able to do that because the Scottish Government has changed the accountancy procedures that previously acted as a disincentive for it to make more commercial income. That is the first thing.

We have recognised the opportunity that Mr Brown has drawn our attention to. I think that we all understand the challenge facing Historic Environment Scotland, given the nature of our historic estate in Scotland. HES has more than 300 sites. In addition to historical wear and tear, the environmental impact is accelerating the decline at a lot of these very old sites. Anything that can be done to consider a “proper return”, to use Mr Brown’s words, and to think imaginatively about how we can marry up the diaspora and other interests with different parts of Scotland and support particular projects.

As Mr Brown knows, I have responsibility for diaspora matters for the Scottish Government. I have also spoken with the new chief executive and chair about signposting particular projects that are under way in Scotland. They might be Historic Environment Scotland projects, or they might be projects with the National Trust for Scotland or Historic Houses. There is a range of different bits of our historic estate that are, because of wear and tear and environmental damage, in need of significant investment. There is much more that we can do in that regard.

We have made the changes that have begun the process. Is there more that can be done? Yes. Do I believe that the new chief executive and the new chairman are and will be seized of that? Yes, I am. This is one of the grounds for the optimism that I have, notwithstanding the serious challenges that there have been in Historic Environment Scotland. HES’s core business and the opportunity that it has to deal with the challenges of maintaining the estate are issues that it will be able to address with the new leadership that is coming into place in the organisation.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Angus Robertson

I am sure that the incoming leadership at Historic Environment Scotland will be following this evidence session very closely. The sensible points that Mr Brown has raised will be heard, and I will follow them up in the on-going conversations that I have with the appropriate people at Historic Environment Scotland. Such conversations have taken place in the past and they will continue to take place.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Angus Robertson

I will add to that. We are all in the same position, in that much of the information about particular concerns in relation to senior management at Historic Environment Scotland has been shared with us anonymously. There is one particular whistleblowing source, and I do not know who that person is. That person has never requested to speak with me. I do not know whether they have spoken with any members of the committee, who might therefore know who are. However, whistleblowing gives people a very important opportunity to share concerns. This is a very clear example of a situation where it has been in the public interest for us to be informed about these concerns.

To underline Mr Hogg’s point, the opportunity has been there for the board and individual members of the board to share their views with the Scottish Government, and they have done so.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Angus Robertson

That is correct.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Angus Robertson

In the fullness of time, as some of the issues come out in the form of investigations, I think that it will become clear that we are talking about problems of a different magnitude compared with any other organisation, where there are standard HR issues that come up from time to time. We are talking about extremely challenging circumstances.

As Kenneth Hogg has pointed to, in the sponsorship team within the culture directorate—which deals with the national public bodies in the museums, galleries and Creative Scotland side of things—there is much greater sensitivity to any potential early warning signs of what we believe may have taken place at Historic Environment Scotland. We have no sign of that being the case elsewhere.

We have officials who are very involved, and I have given the committee evidence at some length about the number of meetings and the range of formats with very senior officials informing ourselves about the problems. That institutional memory and understanding within the civil service and with myself would stand us in good stead if there were to be any signs of similar developments elsewhere.

I am not aware of such a range of issues occurring in any other one of the arm’s-length, non-departmental public bodies. I have spoken with ministerial colleagues in the Scottish Government to ask, “Is anybody aware of these sorts of developments, at this scale with this range, and the potential reasons why?” Nobody has any memory of there being such an example. Therefore, we will do everything we can to deal with the matter now, and we will also learn any lessons to make sure that it does not happen in future.

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

General Question Time

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Angus Robertson

The Scottish Government has increased Creative Scotland’s multiyear funding by £20 million this year, providing a major boost to Scotland’s culture sector. That investment provides stability for organisations to plan and deliver high-quality programmes in theatre, visual arts, literature and music. Forty-six music organisations now receive multiyear support, which is more than double the previous number, and support for three more is potentially in development for 2026-27. Many multidisciplinary groups also include music, further strengthening the impact of our support.

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

General Question Time

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Angus Robertson

I am grateful to Mr Adam for highlighting the range of interventions and events that are taking place in Paisley. He underlines the fact that the Government is committed to supporting cultural and arts events right across Scotland. Paisley is a really important part of Scotland’s cultural landscape, and I am grateful to him for highlighting the many great events that take place there.

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

General Question Time

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Angus Robertson

The Scottish Government is investing an additional £34 million in Scotland’s culture sector this year, which is moving us closer to fulfilling the First Minister’s pledge to invest at least £100 million more annually by 2028-29.

The uplift strengthens Creative Scotland’s multiyear funding programme, which supports 251 organisations across 27 local authority areas, and expands flagship initiatives such as the Culture Collective and creative communities Scotland. That investment boosts participation, supports jobs and drives cultural and economic growth nationwide. VisitScotland’s latest survey shows that history and culture are one of the biggest attractions for visitors and help to secure Scotland’s place as a world-class cultural destination.

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

General Question Time

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Angus Robertson

The good news for Michelle Thomson and the music sector is that the introduction of multi-annual funding puts an end to the volatility that many organisations have previously had to put up with. No other part of the United Kingdom has multi-annual funding such as this Government has introduced for the Scottish culture sector, and such funding has an important impact on the music sector.

If the member has specific examples of funding volatility at present, I would be grateful if she let me know. The new system has been introduced, so that should not be the case.