What sticks in my memory are the meetings that I had with the chief executive when she came into office. Frankly, those meetings were most instructive and important in understanding that, with new leadership in the chief executive’s office, there was an aspiration to continue with the significant financial and commercial improvements in Historic Environment Scotland.

I would not want Mr Kerr to not appreciate and understand that I have met the senior management of Historic Environment Scotland—I have done so. I could go on: there is a long list of meetings between my directors general and other senior officials in the Scottish Government and the senior management of Historic Environment Scotland.

Excuse me, convener, but I was in the middle of a sentence.

I was just stressing how important it is for the committee to understand the day-to-day interaction between the sponsorship team and Historic Environment Scotland or, indeed, any sponsorship team and whatever non-departmental public body it is engaged with. That is the key interface when one is dealing with a day-to-day problem, and I think that it is really important for committee members to understand that such engagement is an almost daily occurrence. I would not want the impression to be created that the Scottish Government and its officials are not engaging with Historic Environment Scotland, that I am not being updated on progress and that I am not making decisions that are helping Historic Environment Scotland get into a better place. The facts and the timeline make absolutely clear that that is what is happening.

Not only was I not invited to attend any board meetings; more importantly, I ensured that the appropriate officials did attend the board meetings. I have now gone round the houses a number of times with this, convener—

But the question has been asked again, so I will answer it again. I have not been invited to a board meeting, but the board meetings have been attended by the appropriate officials, to make sure that we best understand what the discussions are in Historic Environment Scotland and that we, as the Scottish Government, take the responsibilities that are ours. I have run through them, but I will run through them again. We are making sure that we are—

I was invited to the trustees of the National Museums Scotland at one stage, who wanted to talk with me about fundraising and funding—unsurprisingly. I was invited to attend a board meeting of Creative Scotland at one stage, again to talk about funding. However, in the normal run of things, that would not be how the relationship I have as cabinet secretary with the non-departmental bodies would take place.

There is a regular range of meetings that I have, both formal and informal. Some of them are sit-down meetings and some of them are at-site visits—there are different formats for the meetings. They tend to be with the chief executive and/or the chair of that organisation, which is the appropriate way to do it, and that happens with great regularity.

The chief executives and—I hope and I believe—the chairs of the bodies across my areas of responsibility are very well aware of my wish to be informed about anything they would wish to raise with me personally. However, both they and I have the greatest confidence in the sponsorship team in the culture directorate, which has the direct day-to-day responsibility, as senior officials, to talk with the senior officials in the organisations to make sure that we are best informed and doing everything that we need to do.

I wish to give you the assurance that that is very much the focus of Historic Environment Scotland and our interest in supporting what it does. Indeed, as I alluded to earlier, I was at the headquarters of Historic Environment Scotland with its senior management and others as part of a strategic partnership to deliver on the “Our Past, Our Future” strategy, bringing together non-departmental and other organisations to deliver on exactly those issues, such has the challenge with skills.

You will be aware of—and I have already made mention of—the opening of lock 16 as a focus for skills in traditional crafts that are acutely in demand for Historic Environment Scotland and, in that case specifically, Canals Scotland. That is an example of where changes are happening and partnership working is taking place. Having had the good fortune to be part of the considerations yesterday, I attest that Historic Environment Scotland is seized of that. Partner organisations such as Skills Development Scotland and Young Scot were also part of the conversation, as were enterprise agencies. Others are part of the process, too.

Therefore, the first thing is to say we are very focused today, for obvious reasons, on the particular leadership issues in Historic Environment Scotland. However, I also want to put on record my appreciation for the excellent work that has been taking place within Historic Environment Scotland in relation to matters such as skills and in partnership working. That work perhaps receives less focus because we are dealing with a significant problem at present, but we should not lose sight of the fact that its day-to-day operations continue. What it does is extremely important, and what it is doing financially is, in many respects, ground-breaking.

You also asked to understand when some of the problems emerged. I would not want to opine about that ahead of the investigations that are taking place under new leadership and the chair of Historic Environment Scotland. I think that they will throw up a lot of the answers to when exactly some of the issues took place, to what extent they were endemic or not, and what the consequences must be.

I deemed it necessary that the responsible officials who deal with the day-to-day management of the organisation at that level should attend the meeting. That is the normal custom and practice.

First, the operational and HR questions are matters for Historic Environment Scotland.

Secondly, there is an on-going discussion with all non-departmental bodies around financial questions. That is an on-going issue, which is why we have sponsorship teams. Were there to be any particular ask, as part of dealing with these challenges, I would look on it as I would look on any request made by any body in my area of responsibility. However, I have not had that reported to me.

The committee will be aware that Historic Environment Scotland is a very well funded non-departmental body that is increasingly commercially successful. That is something that we have set great store by, and Historic Environment Scotland has been a model arm’s-length body.

I would need to be advised on that, which I have not been. However, I understand that staff members at Historic Environment Scotland have a range of complaints and concerns. Obviously, legal action is a route that is open to us all as citizens, but I would have to be advised as to the nature of any particular legal complaint before I am able to answer that question.