Chamber and committees

Last Friday, I was at Public Health Scotland’s annual review. PHS collects a wealth of data across healthcare and, as I indicated in my opening remarks, the Scottish cardiac audit was published just yesterday. It includes some additional information on out-of-hospital cardiac arrests—this is the first year that that has been included, and we recognise the importance of it. As you pointed out in your question, that will allow us to plan better for the pathways and the support that we can give to communities.

I am pleased that PHS is able to collect that data. We are hoping that the next stage will be that health boards feed in directly to that process, as opposed to there being a two-stage approach. That is really positive and it will not only help the Scottish Government but help health boards to understand more about the needs in their communities.

I think that we, as MSPs, all have a responsibility in that regard. A few months ago, there was a debate in Parliament about that, explaining to members the importance of ensuring that the defibrillator in their area is logged on to the circuit. As Steven Short explained in his oral evidence to you, that is how the Scottish Ambulance Service can direct people to the closest defibrillator in the area.

Last Friday, I was in Oban, visiting the Happy Wee Health Club. Outside the gym, there is a defibrillator on the wall. We need to ensure that it is well known where the defibrillators that are dotted around communities are situated.

It is a target. If a target is challenging, that is great, because it challenges people to ensure—

I have a short statement to make, if I may. Thank you for inviting me to provide evidence. Addressing cardiac arrests, strokes and sudden cardiac deaths is very important to the Scottish Government, so I am pleased to be here to talk about the petitions.

I want to begin by focusing on the two petitions that relate to defibrillators. As part of the Save a Life for Scotland partnership, the Scottish Government works to improve outcomes from out-of-hospital cardiac arrest. The partnership has made significant progress since 2015, and I am pleased to say that more than a million people have been trained in cardiopulmonary resuscitation, which achieves the target set out in our strategy. Bystander CPR rates and defibrillator usage have also increased, as have survival rates, which is important.

The petitioners highlight the importance of defibrillator provision and usage. Recently, the First Minister and I were pleased to meet Rodger and Lesley Hill, who founded the DH9 Foundation, in memory of David Hill. We discussed their proposal for the placement of defibrillators in schools. The First Minister asked that the DH9 Foundation and the Save a Life for Scotland partnership provide the Government with an agreed position on the best way to increase defibrillator availability and usage in Scotland. In response, our partners have recommended taking a data-driven and localised approach to increasing defib access. That means using PADmap, which shows the location of public access defibrillators, to identify the areas where defibs are most needed, and working with local communities to place them effectively and to support increased awareness and confidence in their usage.

Our partners were also clear about the importance of cardiac responder networks in areas where fixed defib positions might not be the best approach. We are considering how we can contribute to the shared vision of ensuring that communities across Scotland are prepared and supported to respond to cardiac arrest.

Petition PE2067, which was lodged by Sharon Duncan, David Hill’s mother, focuses on improving data relating to sudden cardiac death and the conditions that are associated with it. I strongly agree about the importance of such data, and I am pleased to make the committee aware that, just yesterday, Public Health Scotland published the Scottish cardiac audit programme. That expanded report includes data on inherited cardiac conditions for the first time. In addition, the programme has been working alongside the inherited cardiac condition service along the west coast of Scotland to develop a proof of concept for a sudden cardiac death registry. It is hoped that preliminary data will be included in next year’s report. Those are really important developments that, I hope, encourage the committee and Mrs Duncan that we are working to address the challenges relating to data on sudden cardiac death and the conditions associated with it.

On the petition that relates to the review of the FAST stroke awareness campaign, I very much welcome the work that the Bundy family have undertaken. In May 2024, I met the family to discuss their campaign, and I was moved by their determination to improve awareness of stroke symptoms. Following a meeting with the family, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care asked the stroke speciality adviser to the chief medical officer to review stroke awareness education for clinical staff, which led to the development of an education package funded by the Scottish Government and delivered to more than 1,500 staff in general practices, emergency departments and the Scottish Ambulance Service. The education package also covers the less common presentations of stroke, including symptoms relating to visual field defects and certain presentations of loss of balance. We will keep our position on stroke symptom awareness under review and be guided by the best evidence at all times.

I thank all the petitioners for raising these extremely important issues. The Scottish Government and I take these matters very seriously, and I hope that I have outlined to the committee the steps that we are taking to address them.

I have had a number of conversations about that with officials and third sector organisations such as Chest Heart & Stroke Scotland and the Stroke Association. As you will know, Chest Heart & Stroke Scotland ran an awareness campaign either late last year or earlier this year that was based on the FAST guidelines.

I mentioned in my introductory remarks that, as a result of his meeting the Bundy family, the cabinet secretary asked the chief medical officer to do a piece of work on the issue. As a result, we have provided and funded an education resource—which 1,500 people from emergency departments, general practice and wider healthcare have gone through—to ensure that people are aware not only of the FAST symptoms but also of those that are not in that acronym, which can be around balance and visual impairment. That work has been done and it is continuing.

Thank you for acknowledging the importance of listening to people with lived experience. In the role that I carry out, which is focused on public health and women’s health, the best support that we can get is from people who have experienced trauma and from those who have had positive experiences in healthcare. It is important to acknowledge that.

The evidence session that you had with Steven Short from the Save a Life for Scotland partnership, Kirsty Morrison from Chest Heart & Stroke Scotland and Kym Kestell from the British Heart Foundation was really important, because you were able to tease out a lot of detailed information from them on the work that has been going on regarding out-of-hospital cardiac arrests.

I represent Argyll and Bute, which has a wide footprint and fewer urban areas. When I was first elected, I heard about decisions on the location of defibrillators and the volume of them on islands. There was, I think, one per 1,000 of the population there, which, in theory, meant that Mull would have only three. In considering the expanse of Mull, the community recognised that they needed an awful lot more defibrillators, so they did a lot of community fundraising. I recognise that that has happened across Scotland. I commend the support that we get from the British Heart Foundation in helping people to purchase defibrillators for their communities.

It is clear that one size does not fit all, as came through in the evidence that you heard from Steven Short and Kym Kestell. PADmap is a great help in allowing us to focus on where there is need. Kym Kestell stated that people who live in the more deprived areas of Scotland are more likely to experience an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest, so there is a need for defibrillators in those areas.

You specifically asked about what the Scottish Government is doing. As you heard from Steven Short, we are active partners in Save a Life for Scotland. As I noted in my opening remarks, as a result of the recent meeting that Save a Life for Scotland had with Rodger and Lesley Hill, we received a submission from them, which we are currently considering. We will make decisions on the best way for the Scottish Government to ensure that we have the right placement of defibs across all of Scotland’s vast and beautiful geography.

I absolutely agree that there is no intransigence. Davy Russell pressed me on the targets, which are there because we expect to meet them. However, as knowledge changes, we need to be flexible enough to ensure that we provide the people of Scotland with the right support for their health.

We usually tweet and do other things during awareness-raising campaigns, but I am very happy to take away that suggestion. Members also have access to the PADmap tool, and it is possible to tweet the URL for that.

It contains additional information on inherited cardiac conditions.

As I said, the UK NSC is an independent body. Our chief medical officer is represented on it, along with the other three chief medical officers. I think that the fact that we have written to the UK NSC emphasises the Scottish Government’s interest in its work timetable. As I said, however, the UK NSC makes decisions based on robust evidence that has been peer reviewed, and we need to ensure that that process is followed properly and correctly.