Chamber and committees

Yes.

From listening to the police, I think that they are supportive in principle, but there is the issue of how it would work operationally. That is what I meant.

I know that the committee has also raised the issue with the Scottish Sentencing Council. We need the member in charge to say how that kind of thing is going to be fixed for the bill to be workable.

I do not think that it is my role to push a member’s bill forward as much as the Scottish Government can, because—

I do. We need more detail—one of the provisions in the bill is to support women who leave Scotland, and I want to have more detail on how long that would be for after those women leave Scotland. It is important that we get the detail of the costings.

Thanks very much, convener, and good morning.

I have been watching with keen interest the evidence that the committee has gathered while scrutinising Ms Regan’s Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill. I am pleased to have this opportunity to set out the Scottish Government’s current position on the bill, considering that evidence, and I hope that you will allow me the time to do that.

Although we have taken a neutral stance on the bill and await the committee’s final report on it, I want to put on record, for the first time, the fact that the Scottish Government strongly supports the principle of legislating to criminalise purchasers of sex. That position aligns with that of our equally safe strategy, which is that commercial sexual exploitation is a form of violence against women and girls.

However, I have significant concerns with the bill as it is currently drafted. If the bill were to become an act, it would create a criminal law, and it must therefore be clear and unambiguous and must have the confidence of the Parliament.

Let me turn to those concerns. On the criminalisation of purchase, we are supportive in principle, as I have said. However, that must be achieved in a way that ensures that the safety of women is paramount. Concerns were expressed to the committee about forcing activity underground and the subsequent risks to women’s safety, and that remains an issue that is not adequately addressed by the bill. Similarly, the bill does not take sufficient account of the reality that the gateway for involvement in prostitution is increasingly online, or of the fact that there are strong links in many cases with serious and organised crime and human trafficking. The bill as drafted does not engage with those significant issues, and it would require amending before it could gain the confidence of the Parliament.

As I have said previously in correspondence, the right to support that is proposed under the bill is not well defined, it is not fully costed and it does not take account of the current provision of services. I again point to the need for clear legislation, particularly to allow for adequate financial memorandums. The bill as drafted does not allow for that, and amendments are needed to outline what support is required, so that costs can be properly assessed.

I have already made clear why we do not support the quashing of convictions, and our view on that has not changed and will not change.

Given the points that I have outlined, I am extremely concerned that there are significant policy and operational challenges with the bill as drafted, and there is a need for substantial amendments to address them. I am also concerned that there might not be enough parliamentary time left to develop the amendments that would be needed to deliver competent, safe and workable legislation that we can all agree on and have confidence in.

The bill is not a Government bill, and it is for the committee and the member in charge to decide on how those concerns can be addressed. If it was a Government bill, in order to address the clear issues that we have identified with it, we would require, at the very minimum, significant consultation and engagement with the women who would be impacted by it, with justice partners including Police Scotland and the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service, and with wider stakeholders, such as the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and the third sector organisations that currently provide support.

By way of example, committee members will be familiar with the time that was taken to develop the necessary amendments to the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill in order to address the concerns that were raised and the committee’s views. That bill was considerably broader than the one that is before us today, but that example highlights that, without that time to develop the policy behind the amendments, we would not have had a workable bill.

Anyone who has put forward a member’s bill knows that there is a lot of hard work behind it, and I thank Ms Regan for all the work that she has done thus far. This is an emotive, sensitive and complex issue, and it is important that we get it right. As elected representatives, we have an obligation to scrutinise all proposed legislation, whether members’ bills or Scottish Government bills, and to address concerns that are raised during the parliamentary scrutiny process. The issues that have been raised with the bill as drafted cannot be ignored. They must be addressed adequately by the member, so that we have a clear and workable bill to vote on as legislators. I am interested in the committee’s and Ms Regan’s views on how to address the issues that have been raised with the committee by the Government and stakeholders ahead of the stage 1 debate.

As has been reflected in much of the evidence available to the committee, legislation alone will not address the fundamental reasons why women turn to prostitution in the first place. The Government is also tackling those fundamental societal issues, within our powers, including the cost of living, addiction, inequality and poverty.

The Scottish Government will continue its work to tackle violence against women, to support women to exit prostitution and to support Police Scotland with its operation begonia approach, which recognises that those involved in prostitution are victims and signposts them to support to enable them to exit from prostitution should they wish to do so, while at the same time tackling kerb crawling and exploitation. We have been clear that this is not the end of our work around commercial sexual exploitation, and we will build on that work using what we have learned.

I am happy to take any questions.

The reasons are complex. It is not just about poverty; it is also about mental health issues and addiction.

At the moment, we have committed just under £22 million through the equally safe fund in this financial year. That money is fully allocated to support services and so on. We have also funded a secondment to Police Scotland in relation to operation begonia.

It would put the women in more danger.

I do not support that at the moment.