Chamber and committees

Yes.

A new report from the Office for National Statistics has shown that the Scottish economy has suffered a 6 per cent hit as a result of Brexit while Northern Ireland has prospered in the European Union single market. Does the First Minister agree that that report lays bare the fact that Scotland is paying an outrageous price for being ignored by the Tory United Kingdom Government as it imposes Brexit against our will and that Westminster control is a disaster for Scotland?

Good morning and welcome to the 12th meeting in 2021 of the COVID-19 Recovery Committee. We continue our inquiry into baseline health protection measures; today, we will focus on schools. I welcome to the meeting Gary Greenhorn, who is co-chair of the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland resources network; Larry Flanagan, who is the general secretary of the Educational Institute of Scotland; Margaret Wilson, who is the chair of the National Parent Forum of Scotland; and Jim Thewliss, who is the general secretary of School Leaders Scotland.

The evidence session forms part of our short inquiry into baseline health protection measures, including ventilation, face coverings, social distancing and vaccination, which are the main tools that we are using to respond to Covid-19. This is the final evidence session on the measures that we have planned. The committee will lead a debate next Thursday, when we plan to highlight to the whole Parliament the evidence that we have heard during the inquiry. The committee will provide a copy of the Official Report of today’s evidence session to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee to inform its inquiry on the health and wellbeing of children and young people. We very much value our witnesses’ contribution to the inquiry and thank them for giving us their time this morning.

Each member will have approximately 12 minutes to speak to the panel of witnesses and ask their questions. We are tight for time and have a number of witnesses, so please keep responses as brief as possible and do not feel that you must all answer every question. I apologise in advance because, if time runs on too much, I might have to interrupt members or witnesses in the interest of brevity. I turn to questions.

I thank the members of the Scottish Youth Parliament who have provided insightful evidence on their general thoughts about Covid restrictions and challenges through the pandemic. The young people who gave evidence had mixed feelings about the current restrictions, and I was surprised to learn that, in general, young people are happy to wear face coverings because they feel safer. The evidence shows that there is still hesitancy and, although we all want life to be back to normal, there is an element of our young people continuing to be quite cautious about Covid.

That leads me to my first question. What feedback have you received about the requirement to wear face coverings in school? Is there demonstrable evidence that that is having an impact on pupils and their behaviour? I will start with Gary Greenhorn.

I am conscious that we have run well over our time.

I thank the witnesses for their evidence and for giving us their time this morning. If you would like to raise any further evidence with the committee, you can do so in writing. The clerks will be happy to liaise with you about how to do that.

That concludes the public part of our meeting. Once the witnesses have left, we will move into private for the next agenda item.

Thank you for all your comments on that. Gary Greenhorn, what are your concerns about maintaining appropriate ventilation and temperatures in schools over the winter months?

Thank you very much for that. I am conscious of time and my time limit is up. I know that Jim Thewliss wants to respond on the ventilation issue—perhaps you can come in on that as we go around members.

Would any other witnesses like to comment on that? I do not know whether they can raise their hand in the chat function.

I totally agree; we did not realise how much we relied on lip reading when listening to people before we all had to wear masks. I will move on to Larry Flanagan.

I welcome the bill before Parliament today.

“I have been attempting to navigate through the absolute nightmare of living with mesh for 12 years.”

That is the heartbreaking testimony of Isobel from Prestwick, one of my constituents. She got in touch when there was nowhere else to turn, after years of suffering due to the mesh implant. She has given me permission to tell her story today.

Twelve years ago, Isobel received the implant in the hope that it would improve her quality of life after the birth of her second child. The mesh, which had been around for a number of years before that, was hailed as a revolutionary treatment for women suffering from stress incontinence or a prolapse, issues that arise from having children. Isobel’s surgery was to correct a prolapsed bladder. Fast forward to now, and Isobel has had to have six surgeries to correct the damage and remove the mesh, and a hysterectomy. However, every day, she continues to live with chronic pain in her legs and buttocks, bladder complications, erosion of tissue and, sadly, the original problem of the bladder prolapse. The pain was so great that she had to call time on her 30-year career in education.

It is not just Isobel—today, we have heard countless stories of women who have severe and constant pain in their abdomen, stomach, bladder or limbs. We have heard stories about women in wheelchairs and, sadly, about deaths.

The women going through that living hell have had to fight every step of the way to get help. Through evidence sessions and inquiries, they shared the most intimate details of their medical history, while still being in pain, and having nowhere to turn.

Only 5cm of mesh was ever removed from Isobel, with the mesh centre in Glasgow discharging her, saying that there was nothing more that it could do.

Earlier this year, women were promised surgery in England and the US to correct the wrongs that were caused by the mesh implants. We must do more, and we must act quicker, because women say that they feel like they have been forgotten about. Sometimes, the wait to see a specialist can be up to two years. Women are suffering day to day, and two years is an eternity. We must be prepared to pay for the damage that has been caused.

Day-to-day living is getting harder for Isobel. She has left no stone unturned in her pursuit of a better quality of life. Finally, Isobel turned to me. It is important that I am the last in the chain. I need to find a solution for her. I am acutely aware that the solution is money.

For some women, the Government’s announcement gave them hope, which is a feeling that they thought that they had given up on a long time ago. However, we need more than hope and promises—we need action.

The bill seeks to reimburse women who have paid for the procedure themselves, including the travel costs, whether that be to Bristol or the US. As has been mentioned, the cost of the procedure can vary between £16,000 and £23,000. Many people like Isobel just do not have the money to pay those costs up front. We must remove all barriers to the surgery that seeks to give back some quality of life.

Isobel told me:

“Because of the ongoing complications and chronic pain ... my youngest daughter has never met the real me.”

She describes that as the worst of all the side effects.

We cannot turn back the clock, but we can correct matters going forward. We need to streamline the pathways that will, ultimately, give Isobel her life back. We need a concrete achievable timeline. Her daughter cannot afford to wait another two years to meet the real Isobel.

I am grateful that the Scottish Government, through the bill, will help the women. However, today, I ask that we go further, and that we make referrals and decisions more quickly, that we put in place contracts for the removal of mesh and we put in place funding across the board, not just for those who can afford to pay for the surgery up front.

I welcome the committee’s recommendation to request further detail from the Government on campaigns to publicise the complex mesh national surgical service, on the training for primary care staff on mesh complications and on the person-centred approaches to supporting individuals through treatment, including pre and post-operative support.

I ask the cabinet secretary to comment on cases such as Isobel’s. If my constituent does not wish to have further surgery in Glasgow and wants to choose her own consultant, such as Dr Veronikis, to carry out the procedure, would the Government consider supporting such women, to bring peace of mind and a conclusion to their ordeal?

It is only fitting that I end with Isobel’s words:

“Many ‘older’ mesh survivors who have been through the system have been discriminated against and ignored. Time is running out.”

I welcome stage 1 of the bill as we move to rectify the situation.

I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am a sitting councillor on South Ayrshire Council.

To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to ensure that construction firms adhere to the highest building standards. (S6O-00436)