Chamber and committees

Yes, I agree that that would be very helpful during these financially challenging times.

I will move on, as I know that we are short of time. On decontamination, I acknowledge the FBU’s work on its DECON campaign, along with Maggie Chapman’s efforts in raising that important issue in the Parliament. The safety and wellbeing of firefighters are a priority for both the Scottish Government and the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service. Scotland is leading the way in that area. The SFRS continues to work very closely with Professor Anna Stec in developing research on health screening for firefighters, supported by a £450,000 investment from the Scottish Government’s CivTech programme. To reduce the risk of contaminants, there has been significant change in a wide range of process and practice, and the SFRS is investing in additional personal protective equipment and facilities for firefighters, to reduce further risk. We will continue to work with the SFRS on that issue.

On climate change, we continue to work to support the full implementation of the wildfire strategy. In the number of wildfire warnings that were issued and the scale of summer wildfires across Scotland, 2025 was a record year. The potential increase in the risk of wildfires and flooding is one of the main drivers of the on-going service delivery review, which is looking to ensure that the SFRS has the right assets in the right places to deal with the current and future risks. In the prevention of and response to wildfires, the SFRS works in close partnership with all partners in the Scottish Wildfire Forum, including Forestry and Land Scotland and a wide range of landowners.

The issue of increased response times has been raised. As I have said previously when it has been raised with me, it is a complex issue. Many factors are involved. Those include geography; crews attending other incidents; extra time when a 999 call is taken, to ensure that the right resources are deployed; extra time for crews to enter an appliance, so that they can travel in safety; and extra time in travelling to incidents, due to traffic conditions and street furniture. Each of those elements can be relatively small but they can easily add up to the 90-second increase that has been quoted by the FBU.

Although the time that is taken to arrive at an emergency can be important, we should concentrate on the right resources being deployed to provide a successful outcome, and the SFRS continues to respond to every emergency incident with the appropriate level of resources. The latest statistics, which were published in October, are very encouraging. There was a 7.4 per cent reduction in the overall number of incidents that were attended by the SFRS last year, and I welcome the 4.9 per cent decrease in fire incidents.

A few weeks ago, I was at the Tollcross operational fire station and had an opportunity to see how things worked on the ground when 999 calls came in. I encourage any MSP to do likewise if they have the opportunity, to get a deeper understanding in how response times work.

I will end as I started, by commending the SFRS and its staff. I fully support its work to reduce fires, support local communities and promote safety.

Of course—I will come to response times further on in my speech, if I may.

Deputy Presiding Officer, can I get some time back?

I have made it clear that I view the decisions on where the resources should be placed as a matter for the chief officer and the SFRS board. It is not appropriate for me, or for any politician, to attempt to intervene in those operational issues.

The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service needs to be effective and efficient. The nature of risk is changing and, with that, there needs to be change in how the SFRS configures its response capability. In saying that, I state that I will, of course, have to be absolutely assured that public safety will not be unduly compromised as a result of any changes that the SFRS makes. However, I know that the SFRS will properly assess the impact of any change, and I will continue to seek assurance from it on that matter.

I will move on to public sector reform and reduction in firefighter numbers. It is important to remember that, through the Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Act 2012, this Government introduced a major piece of legislation on public sector reform to create a single national fire and rescue service in Scotland. That was done to reduce duplication and to save money while protecting front-line service delivery, and the SFRS has achieved that. The previous model was simply not sustainable.

The reduction in the number of firefighters consists of 661 whole-time firefighters, 515 on-call firefighters and 63 in operational control. However, the majority of those on-call posts are actually vacancies, and the SFRS continues to work to fill those posts wherever possible.

As part of the measures to reduce duplication, the SFRS has moved from having eight control rooms to having three, which is why there has been a reduction of 63 control-room staff. On whole-time firefighters, the SFRS has also reduced duplication in the number of middle managers while ensuring that the vast majority of the 356 fire stations across Scotland remained operational.

On broadening the firefighter role, I meet Fire Brigades Union Scottish officials regularly, and I recognise that they have a sound working relationship with SFRS senior managers. In those meetings, they are effective in lobbying for additional funding, and I know that the firefighters will be disappointed that we have not been able to afford the significant additional cost of broadening their role. Although there are clear public sector reform advantages in firefighters doing more to keep our communities safe, the tough choices that the Government faces—

Yes.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.

I am just going on the information that I have in front of me today. I will write to the member about that point.

I would also say that, although house fires and casualties have reduced, the number of incidents such as flooding and wildfires has increased, of which we are all acutely aware. That is why it is right that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service carefully considers how to adapt to changing risks in order to remain effective and efficient, to ensure that firefighters are in the right place and at the right time. I am sure that all of us in the chamber, regardless of our political colours, would agree with that.

I thank Maggie Chapman and all the members who have contributed to this important debate.

As the minister with responsibility for fire and rescue, I express my appreciation for the staff of the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, who work tirelessly to keep our communities across Scotland safe. I welcome to the public gallery representatives of the FBU, along with representatives of the Fire and Rescue Services Association whom I met this morning when we had some very helpful conversations.

I want to get a few points across about the service delivery review first, because the debate is very broad. As we know, the nature of the emergencies to which the SFRS responds has changed significantly over the years. As an example, the number of dwelling fires has reduced by more than 20 per cent since 2013.

I heard what Richard Leonard said about his conversations. I do not know whether the figures that he mentioned are accurate, but that is not the information that I have been given. The statistics show that there has been a 33 per cent reduction in non-fatal fire casualties between 2009-10 and 2023-24, but there has been a 32 per cent reduction in fatal fire casualties over the same period. It is very important that we get that across.

The Scottish Government does not accept that reliance on local enforcement creates a postcode lottery in public safety. Police Scotland operates within nationally set strategic police priorities, which apply to the whole of Scotland and emphasise public safety, prevention and consistency, while allowing appropriate local flexibility to respond to community needs.

The Scottish Government continues to support policing capacity through record funding of £1.64 billion in this financial year. Scotland has a higher number of police officers per capita than England and Wales, and Scottish Government funding enabled Police Scotland to take on more recruits in the most recent financial year than at any time since 2013.

Operational policing decisions, including taking enforcement action against illegal and antisocial e-scooter use, are rightly a matter for Police Scotland, and the member will be aware of my commitment to working collectively to address concerns that were raised during the debate on 9 December. I welcome the positive examples of Police Scotland’s enforcement activity in this area.

We have had lots of meetings about the matter over the past year and will, I hope, have another one with MSPs who have an interest in it. Jim Fairlie and I wrote to the UK Government regarding it in October. I received a letter last week saying that the Labour Government did not feel that any legislation was necessary, which is disappointing, but I will keep members updated on that.

I totally appreciate and understand what the member says. I have regular meetings with the SFRS, which has made it very clear to me—I know that this has come up at committee, too—that it would be considering the proposed changes even if it had all the money. I get independent advice from His Majesty’s Fire Service Inspectorate in Scotland, and the chief inspector has said to me that he would be very concerned if the SFRS was not considering reform.

I understand that people are concerned about austerity, but I have had those conversations about how the review can deliver over the next five years. I am told that it is not about austerity, although I understand that people think that it is.

I will try to make a bit of progress, if I can. The SFRS’s public consultation on its service delivery review concluded in September. However, the SFRS board has requested that further work be undertaken on the independent analysis of the consultation responses, along with a fresh and independent look at the equality impact of the possible options for change. That work is on-going, and that is why things have been delayed. The SFRS is not able to provide a precise timetable for when the work will be completed. I would like to clarify that the SDR is a change programme, which will be implemented over a five-year period.

The Scottish Government does not accept that reliance on local enforcement creates a postcode lottery in public safety. Police Scotland operates within nationally set strategic police priorities, which apply to the whole of Scotland and emphasise public safety, prevention and consistency, while allowing appropriate local flexibility to respond to community needs.

The Scottish Government continues to support policing capacity through record funding of £1.64 billion in this financial year. Scotland has a higher number of police officers per capita than England and Wales, and Scottish Government funding enabled Police Scotland to take on more recruits in the most recent financial year than at any time since 2013.

Operational policing decisions, including taking enforcement action against illegal and antisocial e-scooter use, are rightly a matter for Police Scotland, and the member will be aware of my commitment to working collectively to address concerns that were raised during the debate on 9 December. I welcome the positive examples of Police Scotland’s enforcement activity in this area.