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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 1 December 2025
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Displaying 1480 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

I accept what it says; witnesses are more than welcome to give their opinion. I have already said that the numbers fluctuate, so I do not think that there are inaccuracies, but the costs need to be updated.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

That is fine. Thank you, convener. I am happy to get to your question.

I know that that issue was raised during the evidence sessions and in written evidence. As I said, following careful consideration of the responses to the consultation, the Scottish Government is content that additional legislative provision in relation to restraint is not necessary to ensure the safety of the child and others. That is because an overly prescriptive approach to minimising restraint practices could have adverse consequences in relation to escalation and criminalisation. Instead, ministers consider that a blended framework of regulation, guidance, practice support and precise reporting is likely to serve Scotland’s children best.

Work is on-going with partners to reduce and, where possible, eliminate the use of restraint with children in care. That includes working with the Scottish physical restraint action group to explore definitions of restraint along with the availability of data, training and support.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

There are no inaccuracies. It needs to be—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

Yes—it needs to be updated.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

Sorry?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

On the support for social work, I will hand over to my official, who might give a clearer response on that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

I believe that 16 and 17-year-olds should be treated as children within the criminal justice system.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

That is another important question. As I have said, like any measure through the children’s hearings system, an MRC can be imposed only if it is better for the child than not having it, when it is necessary and when it meets the child’s welfare needs, which is a paramount consideration. An MRC is intended to be a restriction on a child’s liberty, not a deprivation. As I said, it is the most extreme measure prior to secure care.

In terms of its effectiveness, if a child does not comply with an order, the local authority must notify the children’s reporter to require a review of that order. A children’s hearing will reconsider the child’s whole circumstances in order to consider whether any additional or alternative measures are needed in order to address the child’s behaviour. The scheduling of those hearings are prioritised, given the potential requirement for more restrictive measures to be put into place. As with other elements of a child’s plan, including the risk management plan, monitoring and reviewing the risk, vulnerabilities and potential adverse outcomes are key. A MRC can be reviewed and monitored on an on-going basis.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

Again, that was a thorough answer, but I will add a little to it. Prisons are not places for children, as we have discussed this morning, but we acknowledge that there are obviously circumstances in which people need protected from children who have caused harm. There are rigorous risk assessments involved with regard to both the individual child and the children who are already in the secure care centre. We really want to emphasise that.

The secure care centre is the most appropriate form of care, regardless of the gravity of the crime in any given situation, because it will be a nurturing environment that offers the best chance of giving the child or young person the opportunity to rehabilitate and change their path in life. That element of secure care needs to be emphasised, in comparison with the situation for older adults.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

We certainly do not want to give that impression. Secure care is, without a doubt, the most intensive and restrictive form of care in Scotland. I have visited one such centre. They are places where a child is, as Fulton MacGregor has stated, deprived of their liberty in a locked environment, while, at the same time, care, support and education are provided. When a child is placed in secure care, public protection and safety considerations are at the forefront. The child is cared for in a locked facility and, over a longer term, they are provided with support to aid their rehabilitation and reintegration.

That goes back to what I said earlier. We need to balance restrictions and the reduction of liberty with a nurturing environment in which 16 and 17-year-olds who might have committed offences have the chance to rehabilitate themselves in an appropriate setting. More work might need to be done to convey that image, but secure care is definitely not a soft-touch approach.