Chamber and committees

Good morning.

It is a personal honour for me to bring forward this legislation. The provisions set out in it represent a significant step forward in our commitment to keep the Promise and ensure that all children and young people in Scotland can grow up loved, safe and respected.

The bill builds on progress that is already being made nationally and locally. There are now fewer children and young people who are looked after in Scotland, no young people under the age of 18 are being admitted to young offenders institutions, and more people with care experience are going on to positive destinations nine months after leaving school.

However, we all know that the journey that we are on still has some way to go. The pace of change has to be increased, and in more areas and on more issues. The Promise has to become a reality in care-experienced people’s lives.

The bill seeks to support that ambition. It makes changes to a wide range of policy areas, including expanding eligibility for aftercare, improving the language of care, establishing a national register of foster carers, tackling excessive profit in the care system, providing statutory guidance to promote understanding, and expanding eligibility for and the right to advocacy.

That last measure is particularly important, because it will empower children and young people, and ensure that their opinions are central in decision making in their own lives. It also ensures that the voice of care-experienced children and young people is supported and heard throughout the system.

I was at an event hosted by Our Hearings, Our Voice, which was all about celebrating and listening to care-experienced voices. At that event, young people spoke about some of the ways that they would like to see hearings change. They are carrying out some great work of their own, but some of what was discussed speaks directly to the bill, which also includes provisions to help strengthen the children’s hearings system, and to strengthen the relationship between children’s and adult services, which are key to delivering holistic family support.

The bill is not the sum total of our work to keep the Promise, and nor should it be. Practical changes are being made that do not require legislative reform. Other changes, such as those in chapter 3 on children’s hearings, are part of a wider and broader project to redesign children’s hearings. However, I am aware that there is a wide range of views on whether improvements and additions can be made to the bill.

I put on record my appreciation of everyone who has responded to and engaged with the development of the bill’s provisions, from the original consultation through to providing and giving evidence at stage 1, as well as my appreciation of everybody I have met along the way.

I am also grateful to committee members and party spokespeople for engaging with me at stage 1, and I hope that that co-operation continues throughout the bill’s progress in Parliament. I want to make it clear that I am listening.

I am happy to take the committee’s questions.

I do not believe that there has been a lack of engagement. I think that there has been extensive engagement from me and my officials.

The bill has been informed by the independent care review, which reflected the voices of more than 5,500 care-experienced children, adults and families. We undertook four public consultations. A range of work has been on-going with different organisations. I have engaged with Sheriff Mackie on his report on the children’s hearings system. Most importantly, I have met very regularly with children and young people to determine what their priorities are.

Although I appreciate that there has been some criticism around engagement, I do not necessarily know whether that is criticism of engagement leading up to the bill’s introduction; it is perhaps more about a lack of engagement around the specific provisions in the bill.

I have a duty to respect Parliament; I am bound by the ministerial code. I assure the committee that, both leading up to and following the introduction of the bill, I have engaged widely—as have my officials—and I will continue to do so.

Well, I will—

Well, you said—

You said that the letter was sent months ago, which is absolutely right, but, as I said, there has been a period of engagement behind the scenes with officials in relation to different aspects of the bill, working directly with COSLA. With regard to hearing the concern again during the oral evidence session, there has not been much time since then to arrange a meeting with COSLA. I class that as a priority, and I imagine that I will be meeting with COSLA more than once on the bill, so it is not that I am kicking the issue into the long grass. I am laying out, factually, the engagement that has taken place between COSLA and me and my officials. I appreciate that there are concerns outstanding, which I will discuss further. I am more than happy to write to the committee, once I have had those further discussions, if the committee would like to understand what has been said.

Again, I have evidence of where my officials have—

I see it as extremely important, Mr McLennan. When you were speaking, I was nodding along and I will come in directly on your points.

An example of a key point in a care-experienced person’s life is when they have children. At that moment, or in that time period, trauma that might have been buried for a long time can arise again because the person is going through very different experiences. That can happen in a number of ways—having a child is just one example—and I have spoken directly with young people about that. You never know when that is going to happen, so having lifelong advocacy available is fundamental.

We want to support children and young people who are in care, but we also have a duty to those who have been in care, and we need to ensure that support is there for them throughout their life. I think that the bill’s provisions speak to that directly and ensure that no one will be left behind, even when they get past the point of the cut-offs that we have been talking about and things like that. If you are suggesting that 25 is seen as a cut-off, I would say no—people will be able to access that advocacy for lifelong support.

I will bring in Tom McNamara to speak to the detail around those specific roles.

No. There were just a number of considerations that had to be gone through in relation to what was going to be in the bill. There were tight timescales involved. As I said, those timescales did not allow for consultation on those points.

That wraparound support and the provision of holistic, person-centred approaches to the needs of children and young people is important. I know that some local authorities are doing that very well. This is not about calling out any specific local authority—some local authorities excel in some areas and some in others. Mr Adam hits the nail on the head: it is about sharing best practice. Sometimes, local authorities—rightly so, given the pressures that they are under—think that policy changes or thinking about different ways of doing things can be extremely complex. I know that, because I have been in the room when it has happened. Sometimes, sharing information, abilities and different ways of doing things can have huge benefits.

We are talking about inconsistency here. I come back to how we measure and track the progress that is going on and really understand and home in on the areas where we need to see improvements. Equally, there must be a level of responsibility—I do not want anyone to get offended if the Government approaches them and looks to support and enhance specific aspects. We all want to do better and make improvements, so taking responsibility and thinking, “Yes, we can do better” is really important. I am sorry—I went off track there.

In relation to understanding what is going on across the country, we have “The Promise Story of Progress” and on-going work to understand, and gather more data on, what is happening. That provides and will provide a clearer view and understanding of what is happening and will allow us to proactively approach areas where we think that support could be enhanced or things could be improved.

There was a lot in there—I hope that that speaks to the questions that you have asked.