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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 10 October 2025
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Displaying 1302 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

Obviously, I cannot speak for Liz Smith. I do not know whether that would be something that—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

If a financial resolution is not produced, yes, that is the case.

09:00  

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

I have continued to engage with Ms Smith. I have had, I think, three meetings with her since stage 1, there have been more than 10 letters of correspondence between us, and I have provided statistical information to her when she has asked for it. We have tried to work with Ms Smith as much as possible.

However, given the significance of the Government’s decision and the affordability issues that have been raised, I thought that it was appropriate to come up with another approach that could be taken, depending on the decision on the financial resolution.

A lot of the work on the pilot approach goes hand in hand with the work that is informing our approach to the member’s bill. We have looked at a number of issues in relation to the pilot approach, and I will perhaps bring in Saskia Kearns or Lewis Hedge to talk about that further. A number of issues are helping to inform our decision on the financial resolution. I do not see the two things in isolation. The work on the pilot approach is helpful in informing the Government’s final decision on the financial resolution.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

That is a very important point. There might be teachers who are simply unable to attend week-long residentials—if they have young children and caring responsibilities, for example. The member raises a relevant point.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

That has not been decided on directly and, in a sense, that pre-empts the decision on the financial resolution. However, that is absolutely the case. Again, it brings us back to some of the unknowns about the costings in the bill. I appreciate that there are a number of avenues for funding this. For example, we know that pupil equity funding covers some of the costs for the children and young people.

We know that local authorities currently pay for children to go on residential trips, but that might not be the case if the bill becomes a statute. A prime example is that when the 1,140 hours was rolled out, there were hefty negotiations about the costings for that. It has to be a key consideration.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

I cannot give a figure for the cost. I do not know whether my officials will be able to expand on that.

The process would be the regular process for negotiations between COSLA and local government with the Scottish Negotiating Committee for Teachers at a later date. However, I cannot attach a cost to the standard process for teacher contract negotiations.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

It is the standard process for contract negotiations between COSLA, local government and the SNCT. Lewis Hedge might be able to expand on that a little further.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

Does that not concern you, convener?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

You can look at it in that way if you want, Mr Ross. Alternatively, we can look at it as there being an unknown figure, so it is difficult to understand the full financial implications in order to produce a financial resolution. As I said, I do not want to pre-empt any decision. However, if you took that stance, I would oppose it and provide an alternative view for you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

Sorry, Mr Briggs, I did not hear your question.