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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 September 2025
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Displaying 1251 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Paul McLennan

Good morning. The policy memorandum to the bill says:

“Phasing of the transfer of functions from 2025-26 will need to be based on delivery readiness assessments. Clear, transparent local transition plans will be developed with partners so that everyone affected is comfortable with what is happening, where and when.”

How can it best be ensured that process reform does not destabilise your services? I put that question to Andrew Ewen first.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Paul McLennan

Rachel, will you give your point of view? I will then bring in anyone else who wants to comment.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Paul McLennan

Foysol Choudhury asked my first question, and the minister touched on the second question that I was going to ask, about procurement, so I thank him for that.

I have one small question about third sector representation on care boards, minister. What are your views on that? That is the only question that I have on that area.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Paul McLennan

I will move on to the next theme. In the context of the bill, we are talking about care users and carers, and the workforce, but I want to talk about the broader societal impact of the bill. We have not touched on that; it is almost wrapped around the bill. Do you want to expand on where you see the bill having a broader societal impact?

10:30  

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Paul McLennan

You mentioned the issue of contracts. The bill would allow contracts to be reserved to voluntary and third sector organisations. What are your views on that approach? Do you see advantages or disadvantages in it? I will open that question up and allow others to comment on contracts as well as the broader question that I asked.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Paul McLennan

Good morning, panel. I come to this with 15 years’ experience as a councillor and as a former council leader.

The bill is a framework bill. My question is for Tracey Dalling, but I will come to Gerry Cornes after that. Tracey, you have almost suggested that we should rip up the bill and start again. Is there an argument for being involved in the co-design and co-production as we go forward, rather than starting the whole process again? Why would that not be the best approach? I am playing devil’s advocate here.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Paul McLennan

Do you not think that that process could be done now rather than by going right back to the start? If the framework is established, there will be an opportunity to develop the service beyond that.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Paul McLennan

I have a final question for Tracey Dalling. One key idea that was mentioned at the start of planning for a national care service was that it would lead to improved terms and conditions for social care workers. Retention and recruitment are immediate issues. Do you accept that the improved terms and conditions of the national care service could be of benefit?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Paul McLennan

Collective bargaining is really important.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Paul McLennan

So the proposals are welcome, but there are complexities that we need to examine.