Chamber and committees

I agree. I go back to the acquisitions policy. The City of Edinburgh Council is cognisant of that and is working with that. We have had discussions with the council about how it allocates properties, which is really important. There are other pieces of work going on around that, one of which relates to prevention duties, for example. I had a meeting with One Parent Families Scotland that included some young women who had ended up in a homeless situation. Part of that was due to the fact that they were not aware of what benefits they were entitled to, including the Scottish child payment and other benefits. For example, discretionary housing payments are important.

Again, that comes back to asks to be made of a new UK Government in October or November. We spend £90 million a year on discretionary housing payments. I would love to be in the position to spend £90 million a year to support families and get them out of temporary accommodation. Therefore, that is a very clear ask to be made of the UK Government that comes in in October or November or whenever the election will be—to ensure that we do not have to pay that £90 million.

I mentioned the discussions with COSLA and ALACHO. The issues that you mentioned with regard to families have been mentioned in those discussions. Other models could be looked at, including with regard to supported accommodation. For example, you and I have talked about the work of Rowan Alba. What do we need to do with regard to supported accommodation? The City of Edinburgh Council is looking at how we can support that model. There is an element of social investment in that regard and, again, we have had a number of discussions with investors in relation to that area. Rowan Alba is one example. Other homelessness charities in Edinburgh are looking at that.

At the discussion last week in London, there was an institutional investor who funds homelessness accommodation using a lease model. They are working with certain local authorities in London, and that model has worked. Investors get a low rate of return, but the money that has been saved on temporary accommodation costs, which you mentioned, more than meets that. Talking to institutional investors about a lease model could provide that opportunity.

That is one of the issues that will be taken forward. How can we look at different ways to finance provision? You are right that we spend far too much money on temporary accommodation. We need to build more houses, but we also need to look at more models for temporary accommodation in order to get those figures down, again working on allocations and acquisitions on a short-term basis. We mentioned voids and empty homes. We need to look at different models. With COSLA and ALACHO, we are discussing those models and what we need to do to take those forward on a more national level. We need to look at other models for delivering temporary accommodation units and see how we can make those work in Scotland. That will be part of the work that the housing investment task force looks at.

One of the most important points is that we have a representative from tenants and residents on the housing to 2040 strategy group. It is really important to feed their point of view into that work. It was recognised that that representative is a really important member of that group. I have been to a number of tenants and residents group meetings and to conferences where that has been discussed.

I was a councillor for 15 years and tried to set up tenants and residents groups. Such groups are a really important part of what goes on. The very point that there is such a representative on the housing to 2040 group is incredibly important, because they can then feed into the wider strategy as they engage with the group.

I try to meet representatives of tenants and residents groups every six months to discuss the matter—a national organisation represents them—and I have spoken at a number of tenants and residents conferences on the particular point in question and answer sessions, for example. Having their views represented in the strategy group is important. I also meet them regularly to discuss some of their issues.

Retrofitting and what it looks like comes into play when tenants and residents speak to their groups. Part of the challenge with retrofitting is communication, which we have talked about. At the moment, we are talking about the development stage; once we start moving on that, we will move beyond the local heat and energy efficiency strategies to look at what retrofitting actually means for authorities, housing associations and private residents. That is really important for tenants and residents groups, which can come in and feed into the work. Indeed, they have to, because we need to develop real change: although it is a big challenge to deliver it, we all know that we need to do it. Tenants and residents groups are an incredibly important part of the work, so I look forward to discussing the matter with them.

That is an important question, and the housing to 2040 strategy acknowledges that. The rural and island housing action plan came out in October 2023. Again, there was a review and there were indicators for the short term, medium term and long term. There is a review going on with regard to the short-term indicators. I said that I would come back to the committee or Parliament to provide an update on the rural housing action plan one year on. We are very transparent about that and are happy to come back to the committee or Parliament in October.

Last year, I indicated how important it was to me that I make visits. I will go out again this year because the situation is very different in rural communities. I have talked about the importance of the work that SSEN is doing. I come back to the point about the renewables hubs. On the requirement for the Western Isles, we are talking about the work bringing in roughly 1,000 jobs. That work cannot just be around the main population centres, but must be spread across all the communities. The same applies in Inverness, Shetland and Orkney, for example. That needs to be developed.

On the importance of that, we have talked about the rural housing funding, including for key workers. More needs to be done on that with local authorities. I mentioned that I was talking to Argyll and Bute Council about that. We need a strategic overview. We had a round-table meeting with some key employers. Therefore, work is being carried out in that regard.

However, the key thing is that I come back to make a statement to the committee or Parliament. I said at the start of the process that we are happy to do that in order to be held to account for how successful the rural and islands housing action plan is in relation to the aims of the housing to 2040 strategy and with regard to what we need to do. That work will continue to develop.

Three or four years ago, the opportunities around renewables would not have been considered, but those are now an incredibly important part of what we need to do. Those opportunities can bring jobs and housing, so how do we ensure that we connect housing and employability? If we do not get that bit right, it will create problems around homelessness, but that will also be an opportunity to tie this in to legacy housing, which SSEN is keen to sit down to discuss with us.

I am happy to come back to committee or the Parliament in October. We had indicated that we would do that, anyway. It is an incredibly important part of what we need to do because, as you said, the situations in urban and rural communities are completely different.

We talked about construction inflation. You can probably add another 15 per cent to 20 per cent to the costs of delivering homes in rural communities as a result of that inflation, which makes that work even more challenging. The discussions that we have been having with local authorities about housing in rural communities have been about how we can deliver key worker funding, how we can look at the renewables opportunities and so on. Those issues all tie together.

I will come back to the specific point about the housing investment task force. It was asked not only to look at funding for urban communities but to have a real focus on rural housing. How do we ensure that we do not look only at urban communities but that we look at opportunities in rural areas and how we fund them, and at the particular challenges that those communities face? That will be referenced in the housing investment task force reports. It is a key piece of work.

The housing investment task force was pulled together for that reason. It includes banks, institutional investors, local authorities and housing associations, and it will look at the barriers to investment as well as the opportunities. That piece of work is really important. The feedback that we had from the first meeting was incredibly positive. I have not looked at the potential funders that are involved, but that is one part of it.

In October, I met 25 institutional investors in London to talk about the subject, and on Thursday I will have a round table to talk about it and the Housing (Scotland) Bill. We are also talking about broader flex in the finance system and how we get SNIB and the SFT involved, as well as how we look at hubco. That is not about institutional investment; it is about trying to flex the system that we already have. I have talked about how the use of guarantees, for example, would be useful in relation to what can be offered to investors.

Lots of discussions are going on. The housing investment task force is the main player, but there are lots of pieces of work going on around that. I have had about half a dozen round-table meetings with institutional investors, and that relationship will continue to develop, particularly through the housing investment task force, which will report on what it thinks the barriers and opportunities are in terms of flexing the whole system. We need to do that in order not to replace but to supplement the funding that already exists, because the demand is there, pure and simple. We need to look at different opportunities to bring in money, and institutional investment is an incredibly important part of that.

The issue is relevant not only to housing. I have talked about the lease model in parts of London that operates in relation to the provision of temporary accommodation. There is also social investment in housing through work with homelessness charities. I know that about half a dozen places in Scotland are already looking at that model, and it is already in operation in some places.

We need to flex the system, but institutional investment is vital in what we need to do.

If we do not, I am sure that he will tell us.

We would consider that. At the moment, we are engaging on where the damp and mould work, the RAAC work and the cladding work sit. We moved forward with the cladding bill and we are talking about RAAC, which is still an emerging situation. As we progress those in more detail, a database could be worth looking at.

As you said, it is easier to make new homes a part of such a register. We talked about a register on cladding, and I know that we will be talking about that next week. Work is emerging in all those areas. When we progress those, it would be worth looking at the suggestion that you mentioned and how we could take that forward, because you are correct that data is really important. At the moment, because individual pieces of work are going on, we could look in the relatively short term at how we take that forward.

There is obviously the work by the tenement maintenance working group, and I know that there have been discussions on that. Graham Simpson discussed the issue through the cross-party group on housing and raised it with me; I met him to discuss that particular point.

Work is still going on with the Scottish Law Commission around building maintenance and the related effects. We are waiting for the SLC to come back with an update on that, which I understand will be later in the year, in the autumn. It will be interesting to see what the Scottish Law Commission says, because we commissioned a piece of work from it on that specific issue.

Again, I am happy to come back to the committee on that point. I have said that I will come back to the cross-party group too, and I think that there is a separate building maintenance group within that which has been looking at the issue.

We are waiting to hear back from the Scottish Law Commission on its exact thoughts on that issue, because it is a complex legal area, hence why we asked the SLC for an update on that particular point. I am happy to come back and write to the committee at that stage, Mr Griffin.

That involves working with the housing organisations. We have mentioned the work of the Scottish Association of Landlords, and I will raise that issue with it. I am also happy to take up this matter with you offline and to review it with the Scottish Housing Regulator. The feedback that we got from the sector suggested that the guidance was sufficient, but I am happy to take up that point and to come back to the committee on it.

That is a really important point. I was in my constituency a couple of weeks ago at a project called insulate Innerwick. The village consists of around 400 houses and a group was started up. Two or three weeks ago it held an open day, and Changeworks and Energy Advice Scotland were there. About 100 people attended, and one of the key things that came up concerned that point about advice. The Scottish Government partly funds such organisations, and it is important that people get the right advice. People at the event gave examples of companies they had spoken to that had not met the standards.

There is work to be done around communication, which is really important, and it fits into the broader retrofitting agenda. That involves a fabric first approach and moves on to the question of how the house is heated. There is an element of working closely with Changeworks and Energy Advice Scotland on the work that needs to be done. At that meeting a few weeks ago, technical questions were being asked that I did not fully understand, but that is where the trained professionals came in.

It is about ensuring that, as the market continues to grow, it is regulated properly and that we keep an eye on how we regulate if we need to. It is also about ensuring that there is sufficient advice out there. Even at the one event that I was at, people were asking about that and giving examples of work being done that did not meet standards and had to be done again, while experts from Energy Advice Scotland and Changeworks were saying that that was not the approach that they would recommend.

There is a real role for making sure that there is enough advice out there on the retrofitting agenda and that people are getting the right advice, so that we avoid companies that do not have the proper training dealing with insulation projects for which they do not have the knowledge. As that sector continues to grow, it is a watch and brief situation.

Very much so. If people can do that in a small village with 400 or 500 houses, how do we move towards that? How do we do that in urban Glasgow or in the Highlands? We have talked before about the carbon neutral islands project up in Raasay, which had a conference a few months ago. The challenges were around how to look at that in a remote community. There are projects out there that are working really well with regard to sharing the standard and so on. That was really encouraging and it is great to see what people are doing. There are examples and I think that that work will continue to grow. How does the Government support that? How do we support local communities? That is a really important part, because the solution in Innerwick would be different from what it was in Raasay or in urban Glasgow or Edinburgh. That is a piece of work that we will need to keep an eye on, because people will see the opportunities around that. However, we need to make sure that the advice that we have out there grows to meet the growing demand.