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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 August 2025
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Displaying 1691 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

Just for the record, then, there can be no possibility of your avoiding Audit Scotland’s scrutiny of any potential risks associated with green freeports in Scotland and you will not seek to exclude it as you have done with the National Audit Office in England.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

Well, it is not involved, is it? It is playing a very limited role in the current inquiry when it should be leading it—and, certainly in Scotland, I would expect any such inquiry, if it came to pass, to be led by Audit Scotland. I appreciate that that is hypothetical, though.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

Good morning, Mr Gove. Thanks for joining us. Is it not the case that the real reason why the money for all these funds cannot match EU funding is that the UK is trading broke? The debt to gross domestic product ratio is nearly at parity and the cost of servicing UK debt interest is £380 million a day. Is that not the real reason—that the UK is trading broke?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

Of course, that is not actually the case. The UK has been in economic decline, and the figures are quite stark. I note that

“In 1980 the UK’s GDP per capita was in line with or exceeded most advanced economies. By 2019, the gap between UK GDP per capita and the small advanced economies average had increased to 38%”.

That is by the by, however, and I am aware of the time, so I will come on to what I wanted to ask you about today. You have mentioned green freeports a number of times. The important port of Grangemouth is located in my constituency of Falkirk East. You may recall that, the last time you were in front of the committee, I asked you about the role of, and your accountability to, Audit Scotland. One of the concerns that have been expressed about freeports is the possibility of corruption. The regulatory environment is all managed by the UK Government.

I will just flip over to the record of what each of us said on that occasion. You said:

“I am accountable to the UK Parliament, to Audit Scotland”

and so on. I then asked:

“What specific agreement have you made with Audit Scotland in that respect?”

You replied:

“I am waiting for Audit Scotland to make any suggestion to me about what it would like to do”.—[Official Report, Finance and Public Administration Committee, 24 February 2022; c 25.]

My first question therefore is whether Audit Scotland has been in touch with you or you have been in touch with Audit Scotland, as to how the green freeports can be given oversight to avoid potential risks of corruption.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

It is for that reason that I am asking. You will of course be well aware of the potential for corruption in Teesside. I noted with interest your decision to exclude the National Audit Office in England in setting up your own investigation. The National Crime Agency suggests that £262 billion is lost to UK GDP each and every year as a result of money laundering and corruption, so you will see my interest in a stated role and full inclusivity for Audit Scotland, so there is no hint of that at the green freeport in Grangemouth.

I will ask this again. Given that Audit Scotland has not been in touch with you—which I will pick up with Audit Scotland—will you share any findings with Audit Scotland as to what, if anything, has gone wrong with the freeport in Teesside?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

For the record, just before I leave this—I know that the convener wants to come back in—you will submit yourself to the full scrutiny of Audit Scotland if it looks under the covers of what is happening in any green freeport in Scotland. Just a simple yes or no will be fine.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

In using the term “trading broke”, I am referring to the debt to GDP ratio. Debt is 98 per cent of UK GDP.

11:45  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

Thank you very much.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

In relation to the earlier discussions about student numbers, I checked the UCAS clearing table, which shows that, in 2019, there were 28,750 Scotland-domiciled students. Setting aside a range of other factors, which we all understand, if there was a reduction of 1,200 from the 2023 figure, which was 30,050, that would take us back to 28,850, which compares very favourably with the 28,750 in 2019. I thought it that would be helpful to put that on the record. Do you have anything to add to that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

Thank you.