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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 25 September 2025
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Displaying 1734 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Michelle Thomson

Thank you very much. That is all, convener.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

Good morning to the witnesses, and thank you for attending the meeting.

I want to pick up on that last point and reiterate what my colleague Liz Smith and the convener have said. It is absolutely necessary that we have an updated financial memorandum before the conclusion of stage 1, and certainly before the production of any report. That is because the satisfaction of the Finance and Public Administration Committee critically depends on the numbers being within certain ranges and as accurate as they can be. I add my voice to that. That is very important.

As well as the finance side, we have responsibility for public administration. I must admit that I am quite surprised at how we have ended up where we are in respect of organisational culture. My colleague Liz Smith set the backdrop. We have seen an increasing number of framework bills. Such bills carry significant risks to the public purse in that a lot of the costs are put in past the stage at which the numbers bods—that is, us—are able to look at them in detail. From a public purse point of view, they represent a significant risk of a waste of money. What conversations are going on in your area about the risks against the backdrop of chronic shortages in public sector funding? What are the risks that are actively being considered of using framework bills?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

Does any other project management training take place or is it just all in-house, as you have articulated?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

How many FMs have you undertaken for framework bills?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Report on Climate Change and Fiscal Sustainability)

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

That leads on to the perennial challenge that always comes up with this committee, which is the need for a much more strategic long-range look at public sector finance. That is often expressed as the need for multiyear funding.

Do you anticipate that you will have any discussions with the UK Government, given the critical dependencies that you have set out, in the sense that one needs the other? Do you anticipate that you will be able to have discussions with the UK Government and/or the Treasury?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Report on Climate Change and Fiscal Sustainability)

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

As you alluded earlier, your report refers to working with a debt to gross domestic product ratio of 90 per cent as a normal baseline, as against the startling figure, if it was all public investment, of 289 per cent. That figure, more than anything—I know that it is the OBR’s figure—makes clear the need for private investment as well.

Does your report accentuate the fact that the volatility in the public sector funding environment will have a direct influence on the confidence of private sector funding to come to the fore? Am I correct in that assumption?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

Does that mean that the police thought that it could be absorbed based on conversations that had taken place by that point? Why did the available information lead them to that decision? Logically, that can only be because a lack in the information that was given to them led to a lack of understanding and because, as they gained more understanding, they were able to update their figures. That goes back to the point that my colleague Liz Smith is making, which is that people are making up numbers without having any clue about what the legislation actually intends.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Report on Climate Change and Fiscal Sustainability)

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

Good morning. First, I put on the record my thanks for the report. It really fills a gap, and I think that everyone should read and understand it. I am heartened to see that you are doing the session for MSPs tomorrow. I would like to see further iterations of the report, because it is so helpful. The CCC should also read the report, because it gives much more insight into the complexity of a fiscal framework with that level of granularity. Will you have meetings with the Scottish Government about it? I hope that you will, because it is so valuable.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Report on Climate Change and Fiscal Sustainability)

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

You kind of make my point for me, when we look at the lack of longer-range thinking. The Scottish Government set up the Scottish National Investment Bank, for example, using financial transactions. This year, we have seen a change to financial transactions and their ultimate withdrawal. The Scottish Government’s ability to have a sufficiently long range to be able to match or attract and use leverage for public sector funding is quite diminished without that longer-term aspect. Your report makes that starkly clear, not least with the reminder that you cannot carry forward across years.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

To be clear, how many of the bill team who have had an input into the FM have attended the entirety of that training?