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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 25 September 2025
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Displaying 1734 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

I am labouring the point because, until the issue came up this morning, I had heard a narrative that was about the UK university sector. If you look at the question from a financial perspective and consider Scotland’s level of average gearing, which I did after the first session, the risk in Scotland is utterly and fundamentally different from that in the rest of the UK. It is therefore not true to say that the risks to institutions in Scotland are the same.

Thank you for clarifying the role of university courts. Does the Scottish Funding Council set fiscal rules for colleges in respect of the attitude to debt and deficit? I want to understand that point, too.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

That leads to my next question, which is on what I would term fiscal flexibilities for colleges. We have heard a lot of talk about our being stuck in a trap as more money is needed at a time when we know that the wider financial environment is challenging. What is your thinking in relation to fiscal flexibilities, particularly for colleges, especially given that they are public sector bodies? Are you discussing and considering those issues?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

Yes—that is part of the issue. What sort of non-financial support would you benefit from getting from the Scottish Government? As this is a pre-budget session, we are terribly focused on the finance, but are there areas where you would like to see more non-financial support? I perhaps alluded to that by mentioning fiscal flexibilities, but there could be other areas as well.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

Where is that set, then? Is that set in articles of association?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

This is the moment you have all been waiting for.

We have danced around the issue of international students—the implications for fees and the fee structure, risks to universities and so on. I will come to you first, Dr Conlon, for your honest assessment of where we are in terms of our reliance on international students, the implications of that reliance and the risks therein should there be some major international shift—fully accepting the comments that Mary Senior made earlier about the drop caused by the Home Secretary’s recent announcement.

That is the starting point. I have some follow-on questions as well.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

Sorry for jumping about a bit. David Belsey, I want to come to you first, to flesh out something. Let me know if I have misunderstood, but earlier, you said that colleges should not consider economic impact, but then you qualified that by saying it should not be the primary consideration in the strategy. Given that qualification, could you highlight where there should be consideration of the economic benefit from colleges?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

Okay. Mark MacPherson, I do not know whether you have anything to add. I have a wee supplementary to follow as well.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

Within that framing, what consideration is given to social considerations, in terms of course provision? David Belsey, what are your thoughts about how we can prioritise that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

Mark, do you have any final comments?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

Good morning. I want to talk about infrastructure. We have had a few considerations around that and Audit Scotland referred to it in a recent report. The Scottish Funding Council recently updated its own plans. We had hoped that the Scottish Government would be able to provide an updated infrastructure investment plan, but that has been delayed by the UK civil service because of the UK general election, so the picture is slightly different. We also know that the cuts to capital expenditure over the next five years are forecast to be 20 per cent in real terms. Mark MacPherson, I know that your report referenced the increase in capital expenditure by the Scottish Government that we have evidence of in recent years, such as year-end 2022-23 and year-end 2023-24.

Given that picture, I would like to hear your reflections on where we are with the real need to deliver a sustainable college estate. I will come to you first, Mark MacPherson.