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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 25 September 2025
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Displaying 1734 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 18 April 2023

Michelle Thomson

That leads on to my last question about culture. Culture is a kind of summing up of a whole bunch of behaviours. When you were developing your methodology in 2020, did you step back and actively look at the culture of how you deliver change? Did you compare it with other countries? What findings remain constant a few years down the track?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 18 April 2023

Michelle Thomson

I am referring to the pool of people whom we consult for external evidence.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 18 April 2023

Michelle Thomson

Following on from that, I note that you have a policy methods toolbox that describes how to use behavioural insights. Will you tell us a bit more about that? What training do people go through? I am particularly interested in how you avoid groupthink and the adverse influence of power structures, where the inclination is always to accede to the person in the level above you in the hierarchy. How embedded are those behavioural insights, and how well trained and kept up to speed are the people who use them?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 18 April 2023

Michelle Thomson

Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 18 April 2023

Michelle Thomson

Good evening. Thank you for joining us at a time that must be very late in your day.

I am thinking about the similarities between Scotland and New Zealand. I often say that the best thing about Scotland is that everybody knows everybody, and the worst thing about it is that everybody knows everybody. We tend to find that we bring in similar representatives and panels, so we work very hard to try to get different people. Sometimes, that is hard because of the size of the pool. Is there a similar issue in New Zealand? If so, to what extent have you considered how that affects effective decision making and quality of delivery?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 28 March 2023

Michelle Thomson

Before I bring in James Black, I have a quick question for you. How much evidence do you see of proper risk management in terms of disaggregation and risk probability outcomes and so on, from an academic perspective? Do you see that being done routinely? I have come across examples when speaking to ministers where there does not appear to be any awareness of how to disaggregate risk. I do not know whether that is something that you have seen.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 28 March 2023

Michelle Thomson

Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 28 March 2023

Michelle Thomson

You have quite naturally led me on to the next area that I wanted to explore. I noted that your submission says:

“Despite the rhetoric on wellbeing, there is work to be done to put the National Outcomes at the centre of decision making.”

In your experience, how are risk and uncertainty managed? I wonder whether the cross-cutting nature of the national performance framework makes the outcomes less certain. Where there is greater risk, that can often be an inhibitor. It is easier to make decisions about a tiny wee bit of something than it is to do so across the piece. How do risk and uncertainty impede effective decision making?

My question is for everyone, but Ben Thurman can go first.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 28 March 2023

Michelle Thomson

Does Mark Taylor want to come in on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 28 March 2023

Michelle Thomson

I am aware of time, convener, but perhaps James Black can just finish off with any comments on risk and uncertainty in general.