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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 25 September 2025
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Displaying 1734 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

Okay. I get what you are saying about the scale of representation, and you make that point clear in your submission.

Have there been times when, in terms of line of sight of funding, you have felt that you or any of the organisations that you represent have been required to give what you might see as the right answer or the preferred answer because of the mechanism of funding and fears or uncertainty over that? Is that a general concern or a fear that you hold?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

Do you think that, in general, the Scottish Government wants a critical friend or is that a statement that it uses but that is a kind of esoteric desire? There is a difference between the two.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

That was serendipity, Lucy, because I intended to bring you in on the thread of trust, power and decision making, as I have specific questions about your very fulsome submission, which I appreciate was submitted on behalf of Scottish Women’s Aid, Close the Gap and Engender.

However, just to finish the point about how there could be a subliminal effect on bringing thoughts or decision making to the table, I want to ask about something contentious. When Parliament had its big debate about the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill, I was surprised to find that no qualitative impact assessment had been done, over a period of six years, on the impact on women who had been raped or sexually assaulted by those with fully intact male genitalia in what they would consider to be safe spaces. I make no comment on the rights or wrongs of that—or on any of that debate—and instead I am exploring it from a decision-making point of view, because it is surprising that no qualitative impact assessment was done in six years.

My question to you and all the other witnesses is whether you have sought qualitative assessments in decision making. You mentioned equality impact assessments. Did you seek those and were you discouraged, or did you not seek them? How did that come about during a period of six years? I appreciate that you might not have been at Engender for six years, but I am interested in that, because it framed a decision-making process.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

I am interested in the nature of power and how it operates, and I used the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill as an example of how we got to a position in which, within six years, it never occurred to anybody to do such an assessment. I am not saying that it is the case that it never occurred to anybody to do that, but it looks like it, which seems quite incredible, so I find it hard to believe. I am sure that people asked that question and said, “Maybe we should look at this.” I am trying to understand whether there was a power dynamic at play. In my opinion the three organisations do excellent work in giving voice to women. Was there a power dynamic at play in which you asked that question and were dissuaded, or did you just not ask that question about looking at that area? That speaks to the issue of trust.

09:45  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

That is fine. I had one more general question, which is about wellbeing and economics, but I am happy to hear from Judith Turbyne or Craig McLaren on this theme.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

That is QED on my opening question.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (Grangemouth Area)

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Michelle Thomson

They say that you get what you measure. Therefore, the measures and data collectors frame what the focus will be—in other words, what you are going to measure and the collection of the data—so that we can determine to what extent success has occurred. I would appreciate your thoughts on that. How advanced are we in having in place real data collectors on a standardised methodology basis? In other words, is that quite easy to do, or is it still developing? I put that question to Professor Skea.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (Grangemouth Area)

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Michelle Thomson

You make an important point about the feedback loop. Thank you.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (Grangemouth Area)

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Michelle Thomson

Good morning, and thank you for attending. Professor Skea and Lang Banks have both made comments about the local community. During the inquiry, we have had compelling evidence from the local community council in the Grangemouth area, which has indicated that it feels that there is a disconnect in engagement in the just transition process. Could both of you flesh out your thoughts about what a good co-design process would look like in the development of the just transition plan and, critically, what it would feel like for the local community? I can see Lang Banks on the screen, so I will go to him first.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (Grangemouth Area)

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Michelle Thomson

Before I bring in Lang Banks, I will add another dimension. I do not disagree with your approach of utilising what you already have, Professor Skea, but in addition—this is for Lang Banks—is there not a risk that by scraping the data that you already have, you will miss key insights, for example, by not having a gendered lens to see how the just transition is or is not impacting on women? It is not just about women; it relates to diversity in all its forms. Perhaps you could add your reflections on that in your answer, Lang.