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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 October 2025
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Displaying 1217 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Karen Adam

Good morning, and welcome to the 22nd meeting in 2025 of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. We have received apologies from Pam Gosal, and Marie McNair will join us online. Our first agenda item is a decision on whether to take item 4 in private. Do we agree to do so?

Members indicated agreement.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Karen Adam

Our next agenda item is taking evidence on the Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill. This is our second evidence session on the bill, and this morning we will hear from two panels of witnesses.

I welcome our first panel. We are joined in the room by: Juliet Harris, director, Together (Scottish Alliance for Children’s Rights); Gina Wilson, head of strategy, Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland; and Gavin Yates, executive director, Connect. We are joined remotely by Louise Church, who is the Scottish Youth Parliament’s member for Galloway and West Dumfries and also a member of its education and lifelong learning committee.

We turn to questions from members. I ask our witnesses to indicate to me when they would like to come in to respond to a member’s question or to any of the points that are raised. Louise Church, if you wish to come in, please type R in the chat function and the clerks will bring that to my attention.

I will kick us off. Last week, the committee heard from three panels of witnesses. They were all quite critical of the bill in various ways, and they were not supportive of it. What are your thoughts on the general principles of the bill?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Karen Adam

I welcome our second panel of witnesses. Dr Douglas Hutchison is executive director of education at Glasgow City Council and is representing the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland, and Susan Quinn is the convener of the education committee at the Educational Institute of Scotland. Good morning and welcome to you. We will move straight to questions, and I will kick off.

We heard critical feedback from the three panels of witnesses last week, and we heard various critical views about the bill from this morning’s first panel. What are your views on the general principles of the bill?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Karen Adam

We have questions from Marie McNair, who is joining us remotely.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Karen Adam

That concludes our questions. Thank you once again for joining us. We will discuss the remaining items on our agenda in private.

11:32 Meeting continued in private until 12:23.  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Karen Adam

We will move to questions from Maggie Chapman.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Karen Adam

That brings our first session to a close. I thank all our witnesses for attending.

I will suspend the meeting briefly to allow a changeover of witnesses.

10:41 Meeting suspended.  

 

10:45 On resuming—  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Karen Adam

We are going to move on to discuss part 2 of the bill. However, before we do that, what is your opinion on the fact that part of the bill amends the Education Act 1980, which is a UK act, and it will not be possible to challenge a breach of the amendments under the 2024 act, as the bill only covers acts of the Scottish Parliament? What is your view on whether part 1 of the bill achieves its objective of complying with the UNCRC, as well as providing coherence and clarity of the process for withdrawal from religious observance and religious and moral education? Do you have any further thoughts on that approach?

10:15  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Karen Adam

I appreciate the dry and technical nature of the points that the witnesses have made today, but it is important that we get them on the record. I say to Gina Wilson that, if she wants to send us the amendments that she referred to, we would appreciate it, as it would allow us to understand where those views are coming from. We have a fantastic team at the Scottish Parliament that supports MSPs in understanding any legalese and helping us to make headway on these things.

We now have questions from Marie McNair, who joins us remotely.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Karen Adam

Before I bring in Maggie Chapman, Rhoda Grant would like to ask a supplementary question.