Chamber and committees

I am aware that we are well over time, but it is important that we have on record, very briefly, your views on monitoring and data gathering and the importance of it for everything that we have spoken about.

Good morning, and welcome to the 10th meeting in 2025 of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. Maggie Chapman and Evelyn Tweed will attend remotely.

The first item of business is consideration of motion S6M-17314, in the name of Tess White, on the removal of Maggie Chapman from office as a member of the committee. I refer members to paper 1 and I invite Tess White to speak to and move her motion.

Thank you. We move to questions from Maggie Chapman.

Maggie Chapman, are you satisfied that you have said what you needed to say, or do you wish to take up Tess White’s invitation to speak?

We are rapidly running out of time. We have had questions from only three members of the committee and we are still to hear from four members. I ask for the answers to be as succinct as possible, because I want all members to have their questions answered. However, please do not cut out essential information.

I am minded to extend our time a bit, but we have to be mindful that time is finite. Thank you for what has been a fantastic evidence session so far.

Charlie McMillan can come in briefly.

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on its strategy to further the case for Scottish independence, in light of recent reported polling indicating a majority in support. (S6O-04550)

People in Scotland are recognising the democratic deficit that we face. Given that growing public awareness, will the Scottish Government provide an update on how it intends to build on that momentum and continue informing the public, through civic engagement and public education, about the opportunities of Scotland becoming an independent country?

Slavoj Žižek, the Slovenian philosopher and cultural critic, once said:

“The task today is to link struggles which appear separate and local, to show how they are part of the same global process.”

He said that in the context of rising global inequality and political unrest, arguing that, if we fail to see the connection between what is happening across the world and what is happening in our communities, we risk misunderstanding both. That quote is very powerful because, when we talk about the international situation, we often speak in far-off terms about wars in other lands, authoritarian regimes and political instability, but we must recognise that those crises do not only happen somewhere else; they reach us and echo throughout our society, and they are repeated and replicated right here at home, in our communities and on our doorsteps.

I am deeply concerned about what I am beginning to see trying to take root in my constituency of Banffshire and Buchan Coast. I have witnessed a growing wave of intentionally planted hostility online, but it is bleeding into conversations offline and working its way into my surgeries. That hostility is being directed at people who are already marginalised. I have noticed that the noise is getting louder, more confident and more organised—it is strategic and deliberate.

When people are hurting and when services are stripped away, fear rushes in and opportunists pour their poison. It starts with fear; it starts with rumour; and it starts with blame. In my constituency, the council proposes to close day centres for people with learning disabilities and is discussing shutting down sheltered housing. The individuals who are affected by that, and their families, are terrified about what may happen to them. People are left confused, anxious and afraid. Rumours have started as a result of unscrupulous people stating, “They are taking the housing,” with “they” being asylum seekers. The blame is not laid on those cutting the services; it lands on the most marginalised. One vulnerable group is pitted against another—it is a vile tactic. It starts with fear; it starts with rumour; and it starts with blame.

We have seen where that leads. In the 1930s, Jewish people were portrayed as greedy and getting more than their fair share. It was a manipulation of public perception. The lies were repeated for long enough until people believed them, and we know where that ended. It did not begin with violence; it began with division, mistrust and disinformation. We must be alert when seeing such posts and hearing such rumours. Who is pitting one vulnerable group against another, and for what purpose? It is a disgrace, it is disgusting and it must be called out for what it is.

I support the Scottish Government’s clear stance against the international rise of the far right. We are right to stand up for peace, democracy and international law; we are right to invest in humanitarian aid; and we are right to speak out for those without a voice in Gaza and Ukraine—wherever the rise of hate rears its head. History will judge us, not just on how we responded to global crises, but on whether we defended democracy in our own communities and whether we stood up for human rights here in Scotland. Very often, the politics of division tells us to look at the wrong 1 per cent and to believe that someone else’s survival is the reason for our suffering. It is a lie, it is cruel, and we must always reject it.

I end with a plea to my constituents. This is where it starts: not in government but in our communities. It starts in fear, in rumour and in blame. If you hear a rumour online, please come and talk to me. There is no such thing as a silly question, and you will not be judged. I can help you check the facts and get you sources. Let us be vigilant against those who seek to use the suffering of our most vulnerable for their own ends.

It starts with fear, it starts with rumour, and it starts with blame. However, it can end with courage, it can end with truth, and it can end with compassion.

The ruling provides clarity on the interpretation of two pieces of legislation, both of which were passed at Westminster. Can the cabinet secretary say any more about any relevant engagement with the UK Government going forward?