Chamber and committees

I have a lot to get into my speech.

Labour’s motion calls for a blanket ban on mobile phones in classrooms. I agree that mobile phones can and do cause distraction. There are times when they contribute to negative behaviour and there is growing evidence that overuse can affect concentration and social interaction. None of us would deny those facts. However, the real question is not whether those are challenges; it is how we can best respond.

Just last month, I spoke with a headteacher in my constituency who told me that they had introduced a phones away policy during lessons but that they still allow phones at lunch time. That is because, for some pupils—especially those with additional support needs—access to music or online communication is vital. That flexibility worked for their school. That can be compared to another school in which a complete ban during the whole day is also the right approach. Both policies are valid because they come from professionals who know their pupils and staff.

On the point about exemptions, would that not just create the same admin, policing and management but with fewer powers and more restrictions?

The Scottish Government’s approach to empower headteachers and schools to make the decisions that are right for their school communities makes far more sense. Labour would be the first to complain if the Scottish Government swooped in with central diktats on other matters and undermined the professional judgment of teachers. Local authorities and school leaders know their pupils, staff and environment far better than we ever could in the Parliament, and they are best placed to decide whether a mobile phone policy means a complete ban, restricted use or managed access—and they already have the power to do that.

Let us also not pretend that the Government has been idle. Last year, detailed guidance on mobile phones was published, which was designed with input from teachers, unions and educational psychologists. Just a few months ago, that was followed by new guidance on building positive relationships in schools. The guidance is not about leaving schools to fend for themselves—far from it—but it is about equipping them with evidence and support to make the best choices.

It is worth remembering the broader context. Almost 4,000 staff contributed to the behaviour in Scottish schools research report. The report showed that most pupils are well behaved and dedicated while also highlighting challenges such as misogyny and worsening behaviour in some places, as my colleague Patrick Harvie spoke about. That is exactly why the national action plan on relationships and behaviour was created, bringing together the Government, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, parents, carers and the third sector. It is about partnership, not grabbing headlines.

If we want young people to learn healthy communication, resilience and balance in a digital age, the answer cannot be to simply legislate phones out of sight. That will do little to prepare young people for the world beyond the classroom, where digital communication is a daily reality.

Let us not fall into the trap of making children the scapegoats for wider frustrations. Let us respect their development, respect our teachers and respect the principle that those who are closest to the classroom are best placed to decide what happens in it.

I appreciate the cabinet secretary’s continued focus on NHS Grampian and the issues that it has been facing. It is vital that patients in my constituency receive the care that they need when they need it. Will the cabinet secretary outline what work the Scottish Government has done and is doing to stabilise and support NHS Grampian to ensure that patients are able to move quickly through the system?

As members can imagine, urban gulls are a hot topic in my constituency of Banffshire and Buchan Coast. Not long after I was elected, I set up a gull working group with local authorities and experts to share best practice, with the recognition that each community faces different challenges. We recognise that there is not a one-size-fits-all approach. What support can the Scottish Government give to local authorities for the bespoke solutions that are needed?

Will the member take an intervention?

Welcome back. I welcome the second panel of witnesses: Dr Alejandro Sanchez is the human rights lead for the National Secular Society and Fraser Sutherland is the chief executive officer of the Humanist Society Scotland. Thank you for joining us. We will move straight to questions, and I will kick off by asking what your experience is of the right to withdraw from religious and moral education and religious observance.

Absolutely.

Professor O’Hagan, can you tell us about your experience of how the right to withdraw currently works in schools?

Absolutely. Thank you.

Would anyone else like to come in on that point?

Are you aware of any evidence that the additional exemption to the compatibility duty is required?

Good morning, and welcome to the 21st meeting in 2025, in session 6, of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. Agenda item 1 is our first evidence session on the Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill. We will hear from three panels of witnesses.

I welcome our first panel. We are joined in the room by the Rev Stephen Allison, public engagement co-ordinator at the Free Church of Scotland; Claire Benton-Evans, provincial youth co-ordinator at the Scottish Episcopal Church; Barbara Coupar, director of the Scottish Catholic Education Centre; and the Rev Stephen Miller, co-ordinator of the education and schools group at the Church of Scotland. We are joined remotely by Leah Rivka, research and publications officer at the Jewish Council of Scotland. You are all very welcome.

We will now turn to questions from members. If you would like to respond to a question or any point that is raised, please indicate that to me. Leah, if you wish to come in, please type R in the chat and the clerks will bring that to my attention.

I will kick off with the first question, which is for everyone. What is your experience of how the right to withdraw from religious observance and religious and moral education currently works in schools?