Chamber and committees

Good morning, minister and officials.

Some respondents to the call for views supported the domestic abuse provisions, but they stated that the existing legislation and strategy—particularly the Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) Act 2021 and the “Improving housing outcomes for women and children experiencing domestic abuse” report—must be implemented to make a difference. How are you ensuring that the domestic abuse provisions in the bill can be as effective as possible through a more joined-up approach between the existing legislation and the policy?

I know that you touched on that earlier, but is there anything more that you would like to add?

What provisions does the bill contain in relation to the transfer of tenancies from perpetrators to victims? There is good practice in some authorities. Have previous provisions been enacted yet?

I am pleased to lead our debate on action mesothelioma day for a third year. The issue is of huge importance to my constituents, so I will continue to raise asbestos-related issues and seek truth and justice as often as I can.

I thank my parliamentary colleagues for their support in signing my motion. Asbestos campaigners deserve cross-party support, so I call on Labour, Liberal Democrat and Alba members to sign the motion, too.

Mesothelioma is a cancer that is usually caused by exposure to asbestos fibres. I congratulate ActionMeso and all the support groups up and down the country on their efforts in raising awareness of the disease. As part of that, members of the public are encouraged to “Go Blue for Meso”. In that regard, given that the United Kingdom general election will be happening soon, I think that it is just as well that action mesothelioma day will be on 5 July and not before.

I welcome the Clydebank Asbestos Group to the public gallery and thank it for supporting today’s debate. It has been assisting asbestos victims for more than 30 years and has campaigned tirelessly for truth and justice. It is there, and it is always there for my constituents at their time of greatest need. I thank the group for everything that it does, and I cannot stress enough that I am on its side.

Unfortunately, since our previous meso debate, two members of the group who were instrumental in the tenacious fight for truth and justice—Bob Dickie and Hope Robertson—have passed. I thank all the MSPs who signed my recent Scottish Parliament motion paying tribute to them. It was an honour to present copies of the motion to the families on international workers memorial day.

Sadly, just this month, Bob Dickie’s wife, Isabel, also passed away. I know that the Clydebank Asbestos Group was heartbroken by that news, and I am, too. I knew Isabel well, and although Bob is famous for his role as Clydebank convener during the Upper Clyde Shipbuilders work-in, it was no surprise to read recently in the book “Crisis on the Clyde” by Jack McGill about Isabel making up the pay packets for the workers with money from the fighting fund.

It is right that I, as the MSP for Clydebank and Milngavie, highlight industry on the Clyde as part of this debate, because the unwanted legacy of Clydebank’s industrial heritage is extremely high levels of mesothelioma in our town. Clydebank was once described as the mesothelioma capital of Europe due to its having the highest death rates. More recently, Health and Safety Executive statistics showed that the local government area that covers Clydebank has the second highest male mesothelioma death rate in the United Kingdom, and it also has the highest female mesothelioma death rate in Scotland and the fourth highest in the UK.

John Brown & Company’s shipyard, the Singer sewing machine factory and Turners Asbestos Cement Company employed many folks from our town. Unfortunately, those industries prioritised profit and production over the safety and welfare of workers. The testimonies from workers at the asbestos factory in the book “Lethal Work: A History of the Asbestos Tragedy in Scotland” by Ronald Johnston and Arthur McIvor make horrendous reading, with one worker noting:

“When you went in the door of Turners asbestos there was a Factory Act with all the stuff. The only problem was that you couldnae see through it with the layer of asbestos cement on the glass”.

The risk to workers’ families is clear, too, with the wife of one of the workers saying, about asbestos dust:

“I used tae take his overalls and take them out tae the stairs and brush them before I could wash them”.

The irony of a national health service hospital now being located on the site of the old asbestos factory is not lost on my Clydebank constituents. It is no wonder that I support the Scottish Hazards group’s call for the devolution of health and safety law as, even now, the legislation needs to be strengthened.

We need to respond to the crime of asbestos exposure in several ways. Cancer Research points out that only four in 10 people who are diagnosed with mesothelioma in Scotland survive their disease for one year or more. Searching for new treatments is vital, so I thank Cancer Research and the Scottish mesothelioma network for the work that they are doing on clinical trials, early detection and better treatment.

Cancer Research highlights that mesothelioma can take more than 40 years to develop. For me, that raises a big concern with regard to people who are now being diagnosed with mesothelioma, because there is often no evidence of those people having an industrial workplace history.

I have raised a case in the Parliament from the Clydebank Asbestos Group involving a woman in her thirties who feels that her exposure happened in the school that she attended. There is growing evidence to support asbestos exposure across a range of public buildings and others as the cause of contracting asbestos cancers. That is why I have called for the phased removal of asbestos from the built environment, starting with schools. The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills has agreed to meet me and the Clydebank Asbestos Group about that.

We must deal with asbestos on all fronts, and we must support those who are diagnosed with mesothelioma and other asbestos-related illnesses by offering help when it is needed. That includes providing a fair and just social security and compensation system.

It is a disgrace that, despite being in place since 1948, the industrial injuries scheme has been left largely unreformed, and decades have been wasted with regard to including other asbestos-related cancers and ending the exclusion of women from entitlement. Department for Work and Pensions closures have removed expertise and caused delays that penalise those with mesothelioma, when time is, unfortunately, not on their side. We must work together to ensure that the new employment injury assistance scheme is designed to provide wider, more compassionate and quicker support, which is currently denied to many under the UK scheme.

The potential for people to be denied justice because of a three-year time bar has no place in a just compensation system. The Scottish Law Commission report on that issue, which is due to be published very soon, can provide solutions to that injustice.

I have sought assurances in the Parliament that the Scottish Government will act quickly to implement any proposed recommendations and draft legislation. The current position of some asbestos victims losing out must end once and for all.

We must keep going and make more progress. Compassion and the demand for truth and justice should drive the way forward. Any other approach should not, and will not, be forgiven.

I thank my colleague Humza Yousaf for securing this incredibly important debate. Throughout his time as an MSP, Humza Yousaf has shown unwavering support for the Palestinian people and, as First Minister, he showed immense leadership on the matter, and I commend him for that. At a time when other party leaders were running a mile from the issue, at best, or tolerating genocide and war crimes, at worst, he was on the right side of history, and he will be remembered for that.

For decades, the Palestinian people have endured prolonged conflict and illegal occupation, which have caused immense suffering and an ever-rising death toll. The lack of recognition of Palestinian statehood, despite what some might argue, has resulted in continued violence and impedes the chance of lasting peace.

Recognition of the state of Palestine acknowledges that Palestinians have the right to self-determination and the right to build a future free from occupation and oppression. The prospect of lasting peace has never been more in peril, so we must act urgently. We must secure recognition of the state of Palestine, an immediate ceasefire, an end to arms sales to Israel and the immediate release of all hostages. Immediate recognition by the UK Government would send a powerful message that we support peace and want an end to the massacre of Palestinian people.

Some people attempt to argue that recognition of the state of Palestine could undermine the peace process but, clearly, the status quo has not worked; it has only perpetuated the cycle of violence, and who are we to deny freedom to the Palestinians and condemn them to continued illegal occupation? If we believe that a two-state solution is viable, in order to get it, we must recognise the state of Palestine and allow it to co-exist with Israel.

It is our duty as MSPs to speak up against injustice and oppression and to call for action. I thank the Labour MSPs who have signed today’s motion, especially as, unfortunately, it contradicts Labour’s Westminster policy, which will prevail in government.

Lip service from the Tories and Labour does not cut it, and their silence has contributed to the deaths of many innocent Palestinians, including thousands of children and women. We in the SNP are clear on our stance on that. The next UK Government must recognise the state of Palestine as a matter of urgency. If it refuses to do so, the SNP will force a vote on the matter in Westminster. Instead of the need for that, we are calling on the next UK Government to follow in the footsteps of our neighbours in Ireland, Spain and Norway. The approach of our neighbouring countries is putting pressure on the Israeli Government, but we know that, unless the UK and the US announce their support for Palestinian statehood, little will change.

Recognition of the state of Palestine is in the interests of everyone, and it is necessary for lasting peace. The Palestinian and Israeli people deserve to live long, happy and peaceful lives free of continuous fear and violence. That should not be an extreme request.

The Irish Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, Eamon Ryan, put it quite simply. He said:

“What the people of Palestine ask of us is not outrageous or extravagant. If anything, it is modest. The wish to be recognised as a State like any other, to control their own affairs and to speak for themselves on the international stage.”

It is that simple. Therefore, let us be on the right side of history today. Every one of us here today has a responsibility to urge the next UK Government to recognise the state of Palestine in order to bring about lasting peace and an end to the massacre.

The committee really values your views. Earlier, we heard evidence that we need more detail about the bill, particularly on the duty to act and what that means in practice for relevant bodies. What are your views on how clear the duties are? That question goes first to Pat Togher.

Thank you for that. Back to you, convener.

Thanks for that. Do you want to comment, Susie Fitton?

Does anyone else want to come in on that?

Some of the witnesses have already touched on my question, so do not feel that you all have to answer. What might be the financial and resource impacts of the ask and act duty? Do you agree with the Scottish Government that up-front investment will save money in the long run?

Thanks. I know that a lot of good practice is happening already in some authorities—it certainly is in my area.