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The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-19514, in the name of Michelle Thomson, on building links with Bhutan. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament welcomes the financial and administrative support from the Tam O’Shanter Trust for the recent parliamentary visit to Bhutan, and thanks Bhutan Homestay and the Loden Foundation for the additional in-country support, including arranging insightful meetings with entrepreneurs, parliamentarians and others; notes that Bhutan has a population approaching 800,000 and is set amidst the Himalayas, bordered by India and Tibet, and that its culture and governance are very different from Scotland; acknowledges its vibrant Buddhist heritage and magnificent cultural assets, including its numerous fortresses and temples, the best known of which is The Paro Taktsang, also known as the Tiger’s Nest, which is a legendary monastery that hangs precariously on the edge of a 3,120m-tall cliff; appreciates that Bhutan is notable for its use of a national happiness index to assess progress and is ranked as one of the top 20 least corrupt countries in the world; understands that its political and institutional development is less mature and very different from Scotland’s, but that there are areas where a sharing of innovative practice may prove mutually beneficial, such as on climate change, population retention, entrepreneurship, and education and skills; commends the work undertaken by the Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh to document and conserve Bhutan’s rich plant diversity; notes the view that there are opportunities to further develop relationships with Bhutan and that active consideration should be given to forming a Cross Party Group on Bhutan, with members from both Scotland and Bhutan, and including academic and cultural communities; further notes the view that there could be a useful focus on developing cultural links to enjoy and appreciate the countries' different cultural assets, and notes the invitation for the Loden Foundation to work with friends in Scotland, including those in the Falkirk East constituency.
18:24
It gives me great pleasure to open the debate and formally move the motion on building links with Bhutan.
Never in my wildest dreams—nor, I suspect, those of my fellow members of the Scottish Parliament—did I expect to be given the honour of leading colleagues from our Scottish Parliament on such a fascinating visit to Bhutan.
Without the financial help, administrative support and leadership of the Tam O’Shanter Trust, the visit would never have happened. In addition, we had excellent support from the Loden Foundation and Bhutan Homestay, which allowed us to meet parliamentarians, entrepreneurs and many others. I thank them all profusely for giving us such a remarkable experience, from which we have learned a great deal. We have much to reflect on as a result.
I welcome Lesley Kennedy from the Tam O’Shanter Trust and Tshering Dorji, a Bhutanese national who is working for the Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh, who are both sitting in the public gallery.
Bhutan is set amid the spectacular Himalayas and is bordered to the south, east and west by India and to the north by Tibet. The Bhutanese are surrounded by the two most populous countries in the world—India, with 1.46 billion people, and China, with 1.42 billion people—while Bhutan has a smaller population; it is approaching 800,000.
Bhutan has a close relationship with India but a troubled one with China. China claims that it has rights over Bhutanese territories in three sectors—the north, west and east—and, since 1984, Bhutan and China have had 25 rounds of border talks. It would therefore be wrong and too simplistic to see Bhutan as an untroubled, idyllic place. Like the rest of us, it faces geopolitical challenges.
Bhutan is famed for a culture and governance that are very different from Scotland. Since 2008, it has become a constitutional monarchy, with the king as head of state. Executive power is vested in a council of ministers and legislative power in a bicameral Parliament. It was not until 2008 that Bhutan adopted its first modern constitution, which codified the institutions of government and the legal framework for a democratic multiparty system.
It is notable for a vibrant Buddhist heritage and magnificent cultural assets, including its numerous fortresses and temples, the best known of which is the Paro Taksang—also known as the tiger’s nest. It is a legendary monastery that hangs precariously on the edge of a 3,102m tall cliff. We know that because we climbed it.
My experience in Bhutan has persuaded me that to be Bhutanese goes beyond nationality. It embodies a deep connection with nature, and its Buddhist heritage influences everything. I notice, too, the values that are embedded in the national psyche—compassion, consensus, self-reflection and humility, to name a few. That has allowed change to evolve through people rather than happen to people, although key groups, such as women, are still too underrepresented in the Parliament and Government. However, Bhutan is not alone in that. Despite being surrounded by giants, Bhutan has nevertheless carved out its own unique attributes.
Take, for example, corruption. Transparency International’s annual corruption perception index ranks 180 countries and territories worldwide by their perceived levels of public sector corruption. The least corrupt country, ranked at number 1, is Denmark. Bhutan comes in at 18, whereas China is ranked at 76 and India at 96. As a matter of interest, the UK is ranked below Bhutan, at 20.
I should also add that, as we strive for a future that is carbon neutral, Bhutan is unique in being a carbon-negative country. However, that said, it, too, faces the challenge of climate change, which does not respect borders.
Bhutan has become internationally notable for developing its own gross national happiness index. The measurement is useful for policy making and policy incentives for Government, non-governmental organisations and businesses of Bhutan and to increase societal wellbeing and happiness. When we were there, it was hard to make an honest assessment of how that was operating in practice and in policy making. We know about that in Scotland, too, with the challenges of our national performance framework. I watch with interest to see how that can be developed and sustained, particularly as Bhutan develops its capital markets and financial sector.
I will now reflect on how things might be taken forward to the mutual advantage of both Bhutan and Scotland. There are multiple areas where a sharing of innovative practice might prove mutually beneficial, such as environmental management, climate change, sustainable tourism, population retention, entrepreneurship and democratic governance.
There are opportunities to further develop relationships with Bhutan and I encourage the Loden Foundation to work with friends in Scotland. I strongly believe that, after the elections, active consideration should be given to forming a cross-party group on Bhutan. The membership should come from Scotland and Bhutan and a good starting place could be to include our academic and cultural communities. At that point, I will no longer be a member of the Parliament to take that initiative forward, but I encourage interested members in the next session to do so.
It could also be useful to focus on developing cultural links to enjoy and appreciate the different cultural assets. We have much to learn from the intriguing country of Bhutan and I, again, give grateful thanks for the experience that I have gained.
18:30
I never thought that I would open a debate on the Holocaust and speak about the wonderful country of Bhutan on the same day, but that is how the Scottish Parliament works sometimes.
I thank Michelle Thomson for bringing the debate to the chamber but, most of all, I thank Angus Tulloch and the Tam O’Shanter Trust, ably supported by Lesley Kennedy and Tess Sampson, for taking me, Michelle, Pam Gosal and Claire Baker to Bhutan, along with Tshering Dorji, last October.
It was an astonishing trip. I never thought that it would happen either. When Michelle asked me whether I would be interested in going along, she did not have to twist my arm too much. The sheer beauty of the place and how clean the air and atmosphere were in that wonderful country were astonishing. From every angle, the Buddhist culture of that nation permeated of us. It is an historically strong country with deep culture and traditions. It has many languages and is very diverse despite having a population of less than 750,000.
When we were there, we wanted to explore opportunities for co-operation, environmental management, education, healthcare and sustainable tourism. Bhutan does not want to overload itself with tourists. It wants people to go there who will appreciate the country for what it is and not change it to something that it is not. Not only is the country is unique but it will, I believe, remain unique.
Michelle Thomson talked about a possible cross-party group. If such a cross-party group is established in the next parliamentary session, and if I am re-elected, I would certainly want to be part of it. I hope that the colleagues who were with me last October would also join that group. We could do many different things, from cultural evenings and screening Bhutanese films to social networking, community learning and engaging with academics and the business community in Scotland and Bhutan.
The trip that we were on was exhilarating. It was also exhausting. When we went to the bottom of a very large mountain with a well-known monastery known as the tiger’s nest at the top, Pam Gosal and I were both delighted to find some lovely and willing ponies to carry us half way up as some of our colleagues applauded.
We did not just climb hills and have an exciting cultural experience, although we had an exciting cultural experience meeting film director Tashi Gyaltsen and seeing one of his most important films. We also met the Prime Minister and the leader of the Opposition, visited Parliament and met business leaders.
It is quite a culture shock to arrive in Bhutan because the airport itself is unique. I do not think that there are many places where you see a mini Buddhist monastery in the middle of the carousel where you collect your suitcase but that is what you have when you visit Paro.
There is a lot that we can learn from a country such as Bhutan and it is important that we have strong economic links with it. It might not be the biggest market in the world but it is extremely important and the links should involve looking at how Bhutan can diversify and work with Scotland. There is much that the Bhutanese can learn from us and much that we can learn from them. It is about working together in partnership and looking at how we can help them to preserve their local festivals and culture, and how they can perhaps help us to appreciate more of ours.
Demography remains a problem in Bhutan, with many people emigrating, particularly to Australia. Reversing that will be a major issue for the people of Bhutan as years go forward. One of the things that I have suggested is that Bhutan could learn from countries such as Lithuania, with its create Lithuania project, and Poland and Ireland, which have successfully attracted return migration through education, market diversification and investment incentives. Rural depopulation, which is mirrored in many places in the world, is also an issue there, and is also something to address.
Without further ado, I will pass on to one of my colleagues, as I believe that my time is up.
18:35
I begin by thanking my colleague Michelle Thomson for lodging the motion, as well as all the MSPs who supported it. It is great to have cross-party support for this topic.
I also thank the Tam O’ Shanter Trust for organising and providing funding for the trip to Bhutan that we took in October. I give a special thank you to Michelle Thomson, who organised and led the whole trip. What an experience—it is something that I will never forget. I welcome Lesley Kennedy and Tshering Dorji to the public gallery.
The reason we visited Bhutan was to see what Scotland could learn from that beautiful country. The two countries are similar in many respects. Much of Bhutan is covered with mountains and therefore sparsely populated, with agriculture and tourism the major industries. When we say there were mountains, I can certainly say that there were mountains to climb. My colleague Kenneth Gibson mentioned ponies, which helped us, but, believe me, these legs did a lot of work in Bhutan.
It was so good because not only did we learn about the educational, economic and cultural side of things, but it was also very spiritual. We all, across different parties, need to think about what we say and what we do, but having that spiritual downtime helps.
Unfortunately, Bhutan shares similar alcohol and drugs problems with Scotland, as well as the shortage of young entrepreneurs who want to stay in the country and start new businesses. During our trip, we were lucky enough to meet the Prime Minister, the head of the Opposition party, members of Parliament, non-governmental organisations and entrepreneurs to learn and share information about our respective countries and legislatures.
Some of the lessons that we learned during our trip to Bhutan and hoped to bring to Scotland included the fact that positive cultural values facilitate good governance and that political systems work best when they reflect the development stage of the relevant country and its cultural values. We should aim to reduce the present confrontational nature and short-termism of Scottish parliamentary politics by learning from Bhutanese experiences.
Something that struck me during the trip to Bhutan was the focus on wellbeing and happiness metrics. Bhutan’s focus on gross national happiness provides an opportunity for Scotland to learn about approaches to improving and measuring national wellbeing, which my colleague Michelle Thomson mentioned we were very interested in, and we need to learn more about that.
As both countries have a rich cultural heritage, they could benefit from a partnership between cultural bodies, museums and universities by enabling skills exchange, research collaboration and joint cultural preservation projects.
Our countries could also work together when it comes to promoting participation of women in politics, which I know the Presiding Officer has been doing a lot of work on. Bhutan has a low number of female members of Parliament, so a series of exchange visits, round-table discussions and shared learning events could highlight successes and challenges in advancing female participation in politics.
Finally, tourism is a major part of both economies. Scotland could help Bhutan to promote itself more effectively to certain markets, such as the religious pilgrimage and trekking markets, but that can happen only if we work together.
I hope that we will continue to work on strengthening relations between Scotland and Bhutan, including after the election in May. Our trip has shown what good cross-party work can do. As Michelle Thomson mentioned, the first step would be to establish a CPG on Bhutan. As convener of the CPG on India, I know at first hand the importance of CPGs and the great work that they do.
Through the CPG on India, we have managed to do so much, including the trip to India in October 2023, not to forget the facilitating of the signing of the memorandum of understanding on fintech collaboration between Scottish Financial Enterprise and the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry to promote economic and cultural prosperity. I hope that a CPG on Bhutan will manage to do the same and more.
18:40
I thank Michelle Thomson for securing this evening’s debate and for her excellent introduction to our discussion. I, too, welcome our guests to the gallery, both of whom were so central to our positive experience. Opportunities for back-bench MSPs to engage with parliamentarians from other countries and take part in cultural and economic exchanges are not particularly frequent, and I thank the Tam O’Shanter Trust for taking a delegation of MSPs to Bhutan last year. I was very fortunate to be part of that experience.
Bhutan is a fascinating country. It is breathtakingly beautiful, with clear rivers and spectacular mountain ranges. If you hike high enough, you can see the Himalayas. You can also see what is the world’s highest unclimbed mountain, as there is a height restriction on hiking in Bhutan. I note that, although Kenneth Gibson said that other colleagues plodded up to the Tiger’s Nest, I reached it more quickly than anybody else. [Laughter.] With the help of donkeys and ponies, I got to the top.
Bhutan is a largely Buddhist country, and faith is at the centre of its society and its politics. In comparison with the UK, the economy is narrowly focused, and tourism plays an important part. Most visitors come from India, and Bhutan applies a substantial daily visitor levy as a means of fostering sustainable tourism, which helps to protect its natural environment.
Our meeting with the leader of the Opposition of the National Assembly of Bhutan was fascinating. The high levels of integration and co-operation between the two parties lead to government by consensus. In some ways, that echoes the early ideals of the Scottish Parliament, which has, however, developed into a more oppositional Parliament. Although the co-operation in Bhutan is positive, it does raise questions about scrutiny and transparency, and the prominent role of the king in the political system further complicates the issue of scrutiny in decision making. However, we must be careful, because it can be too easy for us to forget that this is a very new democracy, and it is not one that the population particularly called for. The first democratic elections were held in 2008, and that process was driven by the monarchy.
I had several discussions about Bhutanese languages, recognising that there is more than one. There are reportedly two dozen languages spoken in Bhutan. Although the national language, Dzongkha, must be spoken in Parliament and in films, children in school are taught in English and they increasingly consume English-language media. The ability to speak English is very high, and it is important to the Bhutanese economy. The expectation is that children will learn to speak Dzongkha at home. However, I am aware of the risk of losing it as a spoken language. Sonam Nyenda shared concerns with us not only about the extent to which English is spoken, but about the fact that its phrasing and expressions are very different from those of the official language, which is diluting understanding. I would be concerned that the daily use of native languages could diminish quite quickly in the next generation. We have faced similar challenges with Gaelic, and we could share our experiences of measures that we have taken to sustain that language.
Michelle Thomson talked about the Bhutanese economy and the gross national happiness index. We had excellent engagement with entrepreneurs and the Loden Foundation, which encourages and supports entrepreneurship. As well as being a Labour MSP, I am a Co-operative Party MSP, and I note that Bhutan could benefit from engagement with co-operative, mutual and social enterprise models. I think that those models are a good match with the values of Bhutan, and they would have the benefit of empowering employees and giving them a stake in businesses.
An economic model that is built around co-operatives would also have the benefit of strengthening democracy by encouraging people to engage more directly in their future, and it would increase knowledge of democratic structures.
I will finish on a more serious note, as our trip did. The Bhutanese Parliament is predominantly male, and women are underrepresented. We had a number of discussions about barriers to women’s participation, including the perception of politics, caring responsibilities, language issues and the level of education that is required to be a parliamentarian.
A screening of the film “The Red Phallus” on our last evening raised questions about sexual violence in silence. It raised questions about how a socially conservative society deals with sexual violence and child abuse. When he talked about the censorship of his film, the director wondered whether a society with cultural sensitivity could be suppressing discussion or recognition of those issues.
The lack of women in politics contributes to the lack of discussion and awareness of issues that impact directly on women and girls. Bhutan is not alone in its underrepresentation of women in politics, and I was encouraged that the challenge has been recognised.
This is a short debate, and it is not possible to discuss the range of shared opportunities and learning exchanges that exist for Scotland and Bhutan, but I hope that today will be the start of a relationship that this Parliament and Government may wish to explore fully.
18:45
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak today about the potential for building links with Bhutan. I congratulate Michelle Thomson on securing the debate, and I listened closely to the positive contributions from Kenneth Gibson, Pam Gosal and Claire Baker. It is always a delight when there is cross-party consensus on this Parliament—and, by extension, this Government—having good and ambitious external relations.
I will take a moment to recognise the importance of Bhutan as the world’s only carbon-negative country, as well as its ranking as one of the top 20 least corrupt nations in the world. As we have heard in the course of the debate, Bhutan is also distinguished by its vibrant Buddhist heritage, which shapes not only its cultural life but its values, governance and sense of collective purpose.
That spiritual foundation has helped to foster a society that places deep importance on compassion, balance and community wellbeing. Perhaps most notably, Bhutan has offered the world a distinctive lens through which to measure progress, through its pioneering use of the gross national happiness index. By placing wellbeing, sustainability and social cohesion alongside economic indicators, Bhutan has challenged global assumptions about what truly constitutes national success. That approach continues to resonate far beyond its borders and provides strong lessons that Scotland can learn from.
Even though Bhutan’s political and institutional development is very different from that of Scotland, it is important to acknowledge that difference with respect, and there are also areas of shared practice and mutual learning that can benefit both nations.
There are clear opportunities to further develop the relationship between Scotland and Bhutan, and I take inspiration from the K5 Himalayan whisky, which was created to commemorate the coronation of the fifth King of Bhutan. This whisky features a blend of eight and 12-year-old Scottish malts with Bhutanese grain spirits and Himalayan spring water. If K5 whisky can successfully blend Scottish malts and Bhutanese spirits into a balanced whole, it suggests that our two nations, working in the right spirit, can also combine our strengths to tackle the challenges of climate change.
Academic and cultural exchange must remain central to all relationships that Scotland forges. Scotland has much to gain from reflecting on Bhutan’s experience by considering how broader measures of wellbeing might inform our own policy discussions. Equally, the development of strong cultural links allows both countries to celebrate difference, build understanding and enrich our respective societies.
I commend the outstanding work undertaken by the Royal Botanic Garden in Edinburgh, whose long-standing partnership in documenting and conserving Bhutan’s rich plant diversity has made an important contribution to global biodiversity conservation. This collaboration exemplifies how scientific co-operation can strengthen international relationships while delivering tangible environmental benefits.
Finally, I recognise the vital role of the Loden Foundation, whose commitment to promoting education, nurturing social entrepreneurship and preserving Bhutan’s cultures and traditions continues to make a profound impact. Its work demonstrates how investment in people, values and heritage can support long-term national resilience and international partnerships.
Taken together, these themes point towards a relationship rooted not only in diplomacy but in shared values, respect for nature, commitment to integrity, belief in the wellbeing of future generations and, of course, a shared love of whisky.
That concludes the debate.
Meeting closed at 18:49.
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