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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 28 Jan 2010

Meeting date: Thursday, January 28, 2010


Contents


First Minister's Question Time


Engagements

To ask the First Minister what engagements he has planned for the rest of the day. (S3F-2164)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond):

I have a range of engagements to take forward the Government's programme for Scotland.

With the Presiding Officer's permission, I am sure that the whole chamber will want to congratulate Andy Murray on reaching the Australian open final. [Applause.]

Iain Gray:

Good news, indeed, which is certainly welcomed across the chamber. There is still difficult news for Scotland on the economy, however. There is hope that we are moving from recession to recovery, but our unemployment rate is still too high. This year, more than any year, the Scottish budget has to be about jobs and the economy. The capital budget is crucial; thousands of jobs depend on it. Will the First Minister publish the full details of current spending plans on capital projects?

The First Minister:

The capital projects spending plans are published as part of the budget. We have an extensive capital programme. The difficulty as we look forward is that, when we look at what has been published at Westminster, we see a projected decline in capital spending on public projects of up to 50 per cent. I hope that those are not really the plans of the Labour Government at Westminster. I hope that Iain Gray has made submissions and representations to his colleagues and ex-boss at Westminster and that those have more success than the submission that he made in favour of accelerated capital spending.

Iain Gray:

On page 38 of the published infrastructure investment plan is the Glasgow airport rail link. The First Minister has torn 1,300 jobs out of the programme by cancelling GARL. Why will he not show us those figures? Andy Kerr has written twice to John Swinney asking for them, the Finance Committee has asked for them, and we have waited four months for answers to parliamentary questions and have had to resort to making freedom of information requests.

This week, a joint letter was sent by all Opposition parties asking for the figures. Even the Tory budget buddies, who always support the SNP budget, think that it should be a requirement that current capital budget plans be shared. Why the secrecy? Why will the First Minister not show us the figures?

The First Minister:

Iain Gray's memory seems to have deserted him. Does he not remember that he ended up supporting the budget for this year and that he was one of our budget buddies? Of course, it took him two attempts to get over the hurdle, but we were delighted to have his support for the budget that we put forward for this year to fight Labour's recession. "Better one sinner that repenteth," is what I say to Iain Gray.

John Swinney will reply in detail to the submission from the other parties. [Interruption.]

Order.

The First Minister:

Let us not try to release the Labour Party from its obligation to have a look at the budget plans and the infrastructure plans and, above all, to come to the realisation that its Westminster colleagues are planning to slash capital spending by 50 per cent over the coming years.

Iain Gray:

We are desperate to look at the capital project plans, but the First Minister will not give them to us because his capital spending programme is a shambles. The Scottish Futures Trust was supposed to fix all that.

The SNP manifesto said that it would build schools, hospitals and bridges with patriotic bonds. Now, even the First Minister's favourite economists, Jim and Margaret Cuthbert, are telling him that the SFT is a disaster. It has not raised a penny; it has not laid a brick. We are paying that Futures Trust £28 million to have meetings about selling off Scottish Water, while building firms are paying off Scottish workers. Will the First Minister just admit that time is up for his Futures Trust?

The First Minister:

I agree with Iain Gray—he is desperate, and he gets more desperate every single week.

As far as Scottish Water is concerned, it is our declared intention to have the water industry in the public sector in Scotland. Iain Gray confuses us with an Administration in London that seems content for the public sector not to be involved in the water industry, resulting in higher bills for consumers in England.

Iain Gray mentions the Scottish Futures Trust. Let us take a look at its involvement in the schools programme, the hub partnership, innovations in tax increment financing, Borders rail, the Forth replacement crossing and the non-profit distribution initiative that resulted in my being able to open the new Cults academy in Aberdeen earlier this week.

Jim and Margaret Cuthbert's criticism is that we have not moved far enough away from Labour's disastrous private finance initiative. I rather liked the comment from Ron Hewitt, the chief executive of Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce, who—if I remember correctly—has been quoted by Iain Gray on several occasions in these exchanges. Ron Hewitt said:

"The SFT has … a good team of experienced people. It ... is absolutely the right thing to do. It will save public money."

As we know, Labour is interested in cutting Scotland's finance, but rejects proposals to save public money.

Iain Gray:

If the First Minister has no intention of selling off Scottish Water, why is he spending £1 million on wages for 21 people in the Scottish Futures Trust to discuss it? It is even more of a waste of money than we thought.

As for the First Minister's schools, I have a list of them here: two thirds of the schools were under construction before he was ever First Minister. If I look at my own constituency to see which schools he is claiming, I find that Dunbar primary school was completed in 2008. My constituents will be a bit surprised at that: the last time I looked, there was an access road, and building that school had not even started. It was planned under Labour, and the SNP has failed to build it.

The truth is that we cannot get details of the First Minister's capital budget because it is a mess. Low Moss prison, the Aberdeen bypass and the Southern general hospital have all been delayed for two years. Scottish companies have been frozen out of the contracts, 1,300 jobs on GARL have been cancelled and 28,000 construction jobs have been destroyed by the Scottish Futures Trust.

Will the First Minister get a grip and take the Scottish Futures Trust out of the budget and put GARL back in?

The First Minister:

Iain Gray's question wandered over so many subjects, which gives me so much opportunity for correction. In the interests of time, I will deal with three of them.

Iain Gray argues, despite my previous answer—perhaps he did not adapt his question—that there is a water privatisation agenda. I will quote from the Scottish Futures Trust business plan, which was published in May 2009. On page 18, it states that

"In collaboration with other interested parties"

we will

"work-up, and assess options to increase the efficiency of funding for Scottish Water, whilst retaining public ownership, that could be considered by Scottish Ministers".

What is the point of Iain Gray asking for more information on our capital plan when he will not even read the information that is already openly available to him?

I know that it causes Iain Gray great angst that 251 schools have now opened under this SNP Government. We are heading towards 300, and—[Interruption.]

Order. That is enough noise.

The First Minister:

I know that Mary Mulligan forecast that no more schools would be built in West Lothian and opened by SNP ministers, and that Iain Gray was once concerned that Ellon academy would not be rebuilt. Those are in the new plan, as are schools the length and breadth of Scotland. Facts are chiels that winna ding—and 251 schools is more than Labour achieved in any term of office during the past 10 years.


Prime Minister (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Prime Minister. (S3F-2165)

I have no plans to meet the Prime Minister in the near future.

Annabel Goldie:

The Scottish National Party manifesto could not have been clearer. It promised that every pupil would get

"2 hours of quality PE each week".

I shall repeat that: every pupil, in every school, every week, would receive two hours of quality physical education. Nearly three years on, the First Minister's Government has failed to deliver that pledge. Two out of three primary schools and five out of six secondary schools are still waiting—abject failure, because the commitment was clear, cast iron and categorical. It was made by the First Minister, so why has he not delivered it?

The First Minister:

As Annabel Goldie probably knows, the PE commitment is being delivered through the curriculum for excellence, which is being introduced this year. The Tory survey covered last year. She should not belittle the progress that is being made throughout Scotland. We know that in 2005, when the Labour and Liberal coalition was in power, 5 per cent of primary schools and 7 per cent of secondary schools were achieving two hours of PE. The Tories' survey found that 33 per cent of primary schools and 16 per cent of secondary schools were providing two hours of quality PE. I accept that that is not the end destination of what we are doing through the curriculum for excellence, but even Annabel Goldie would consider that a substantial improvement on what was achieved back in 2005.

As we move forward, Annabel Goldie should join me in commending what has already been done and in looking forward to the achievement of two hours of quality PE for every child the length and breadth of Scotland.

Unfortunately for the First Minister, patting himself on the back does not count as PE. [Laughter.]

Order.

Annabel Goldie:

I wish that the First Minister's reply to my question had been even half as clear as his manifesto commitment.

Gavin Hastings has said that we must give every kid an opportunity. He feels that two hours of PE is not too much to ask. With the British Olympics and the Glasgow Commonwealth games just around the corner, this is a golden opportunity to inspire our children. As Andy Murray thrills the nation at the Australian open, it is such a shame that there are no tennis courts at 40 per cent of our councils' secondary schools. I leave it to the First Minister to explain his Government's failings, but will he join Gavin Hastings in supporting a Scottish Conservative initiative to set up a new sporting trust—a charity specifically intended to give more children more sporting chances?

The First Minister:

I support initiatives that improve children's life chances, and I consider all constructive suggestions, regardless of where they come from. However, there seems to be something of an inconsistency between Annabel Goldie's attitude to public spending and her attitude to facilities being provided for children. There are many initiatives, and many of them are extremely positive and good, but she will have to accept at some point that there is a correlation between the amount of public money that is spent on services and what we can achieve in schools, hospitals and the range of public services. It is somewhat ambiguous, therefore, for the Conservative and Unionist Party to say, "Cut public spending," on the one hand, but, "Deliver more public services," on the other.

The achievements that have been made are not my achievements or those of this Administration; they are achievements that are already taking place across Scotland, where the situation is incomparably better, as far as quality PE is concerned, than it was just a few years ago. I hope Annabel Goldie will accept that, in the curriculum for excellence, part of the commitment is to deliver two hours of PE. I hope she has already noticed that one of the preparations for that is a substantial increase in the number of qualified teachers to deliver that quality PE. Progress is being made. That is the result across Scotland on our report card.


Cabinet (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of his Cabinet. (S3F-2166)

The next meeting of the Cabinet will discuss issues of importance to the people of Scotland.

Tavish Scott:

There has been a dramatic increase this year in the number of people who have been turned away from Scottish colleges because there are not enough places. Figures that the Liberal Democrats are publishing today show that many colleges are turning away four times as many applicants as last year and that some colleges have had to reject people for the first time. Many young people's career plans have therefore been dashed. They are being hit twice: with record unemployment, they cannot get a job, and now they cannot get a college place. The First Minister knows that we raised the issue with his Government in November. Today's figures show why action in the area matters for Scotland's future. Will he ensure that next week's budget addresses the growing gap between the number of people who want to learn and the number of places available?

The First Minister:

That is a very constructive suggestion. As the member will accept, college funding is increasing in real terms and, in our attempt to address the recession, we targeted additional funding over and above that increase at colleges in areas that were particularly badly hit by the recession. Despite that, as the member identified, there is still the huge danger in the recession that young people are deprived of opportunity. The member knows as well as I do that, although statistics for both youth unemployment and graduate unemployment are extremely serious, those for Scotland are better than those for elsewhere in these islands. However, I agree that one of the focal points and challenges for the budget that we are presenting, even in these straitened economic circumstances, is to identify how we can increase life opportunities for our young people.

Tavish Scott:

It is clear that people are trying to get themselves the skills and qualifications that they need. However, North Highland College in Thurso said that it was unprecedented to turn students away because of capacity limits; Oatridge College said that it had never refused admission before, but has had to reject 300 applications this year; Angus College was in the same position; and Carnegie College in Dunfermline has increased the number that it turned away by 800 per cent, from 120 to 904. Does the First Minister agree that action taken by his Government in this budget must increase the number of college places right across Scotland?

The First Minister:

The number of college places is increasing across Scotland, as Tavish Scott well knows. However, in a recession, the increase in the number of applicants is even greater than the increase in the number of college places. I believe that this is an excellent point for us to concentrate on in looking at achievements over the past year. [Interruption.] I see that members on the Labour benches do not like the idea that people can make a constructive suggestion and get a constructive answer. If they just occasionally made a constructive suggestion, I would be able to give them a constructive answer.

Tavish Scott has made a constructive suggestion and he can be assured that it will be a key priority in relation to increasing even further the number of places and the life chances that are available to our young people in this time of recession.

Angela Constance (Livingston) (SNP):

The First Minister will be aware of the disturbance at HMP Addiewell in my constituency earlier this week, which resulted in injury to two prison officers. I am sure that he will join me in paying tribute to all the staff at HMP Addiewell. However, we can only minimise, not eliminate, the risk to prison officers, given their very difficult and, at times, dangerous job. Therefore, will he state how the Government will ensure that prison staff, irrespective of whether they work in the public sector or the private sector, continue to receive the support and resources that they need for the job that they do on our behalf?

The First Minister:

As the constituency member knows, a disturbance occurred in the Douglas wing of Addiewell in the early evening of Monday 25 January during which two prison officers were injured. The officers were taken to hospital with the injuries that they sustained in the disturbance. Fortunately, neither appears to have sustained serious injuries and both have been released from hospital—indeed, they were released within a few hours. Prison officers quickly brought the wing under control and the disturbance was over by midnight. Approximately 10 inmates were actively involved, and the police investigation is under way. The damage to the prison was minor.

The constituency member can be absolutely assured that this Administration will give total support to our prison officers in maintaining order in our prisons. The fact that the number of such incidents has decreased dramatically over the past few years does not belie the inevitable fact that one incident is one too many. In order to deal with all incidents, this Administration will give our prison officers the maximum support and backing.


Children (Self-harm)

To ask the First Minister what efforts the Scottish Government is making to reduce the levels of self-harming among children. (S3F-2176)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond):

We are aware of the extent of the issue and its importance, and we are taking a number of measures to tackle it. We are improving access to both community and in-patient mental health services, and we see increasing the specialist child and adolescent mental health services workforce as key to that. We will be investing £5.5 million more per year in the area by 2011-12, which means an increase in the CAMHS workforce of about 15 per cent.

Prior to 2007, there were no waiting time targets for mental health. We have now taken steps to speed up access to specialist services for those who need it by setting a referral-to-treatment access time target for specialist CAMHS. We have also established a new self-harm working group with our partners to take work forward, in particular on improving training and on issuing guidance on effective measures of prevention and treatment.

Christine Grahame:

I thank the First Minister for his detailed answer and welcome that progress. I refer him to last year's Health and Sport Committee report "Inquiry into child and adolescent mental health and well-being". We recognised that some progress had been made towards the Government's commitment to halve the number of admissions of children and adolescents to adult hospital beds. Following that report, what progress is the Government making towards meeting that target, given that the Mental Welfare Commission says that the practice is usually inappropriate?

The First Minister:

We expect—I am sure that all members expect—that children and young people who need in-patient mental health care will be looked after in specialist facilities. However, in some cases, young people need to be admitted as an emergency because they are in crisis and their life might be at risk, and sometimes they are admitted to an adult ward. We are working to reduce the number of such admissions. As Christine Grahame rightly notes, the number has been cut by more than 20 per cent since 2007. That figure will fall further with the new investment that is being made in mental health psychologists and other specialist staff, which will rise to an additional £5.5 million per year by 2012. The issue is extremely serious. I note that Christine Grahame acknowledges that progress is being made—and further progress will be made.

Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):

Given that more than 7,000 people in Scotland are treated in hospital each year following episodes of non-fatal deliberate self-harm, does the First Minister agree that access to a universal health-visiting service with regular health and development checks for young children will help to ensure that, where possible, mental health and wellbeing issues are identified in the early years?

The First Minister:

That is a very positive suggestion, and I know that Mary Scanlon will support increased access to the range of specialist services, which is supported by the new investment in psychologists and other specialists. I will make sure that she is given a specific reply on her specific suggestion.

Jack McConnell (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab):

Is the First Minister aware of yesterday's announcement that Lanarkshire NHS Board will not be going ahead with the 130-bed mental health facility in our area, following the budget restrictions that have been imposed on the health board by the Scottish Government? Is he aware that the facility is desperately needed in our area, which has an above-average incidence of mental health problems? Is he further aware that the facility was included in the original picture of health proposals for Lanarkshire, and in the revised budget following the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing's decision to retain facilities at Monklands hospital? Will he investigate yesterday's announcement and instruct the health secretary to instruct Lanarkshire NHS Board to review the decision immediately?

The First Minister:

I am certainly not going back to the disastrous proposals to close the accident and emergency unit at Monklands hospital, which was the mark of the previous Administration.

Jack McConnell makes a specific point about the capital programme in Lanarkshire, and I will give him a specific and detailed answer to that point in writing.


Graduates for Business Scheme

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government's position is on Scottish Enterprise's decision to bring to an end the graduates for business scheme. (S3F-2170)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond):

The Scottish Government and Scottish Enterprise are committed to providing the right support for graduates to help them into work. Scottish Enterprise commissioned an independent report into the graduates for business scheme, which highlighted concerns about the geographic coverage and consistency of the programme. We therefore welcome Scottish Enterprise's plans to have an alternative programme in place by the end of June. That will address the issues and deliver even better value for money. That initiative comes on top of the £3.5 million we are spending through the Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council in the current academic year to support skills and employability initiatives that focus on work-related learning and placements, entrepreneurship and workforce development.

David Whitton:

As the First Minister seeks constructive proposals from Labour members, I will offer some. He said that the report expressed concerns, but the graduates for business programme is successful. It exceeded the targets for companies involved and for participating graduates, more than two thirds of whom went on to take jobs with the companies that employed them under the programme.

The Federation of Small Businesses has written to Mr Russell and Mr Mather to express concern and I have written to Mr Swinney. Do I take it from what the First Minister just said about having an alternative programme in June that the graduates for business programme will continue under the guise of Scottish Enterprise?

The First Minister:

David Whitton can take it from my answer that a more cost-effective programme will be introduced by June. He has singled himself out from the rest of the Labour members by making a constructive point. If an independent assessment into a programme's performance suggests that the programme can be improved and that even better value for money can be achieved, is he really saying that that should be ignored and that we should not consider that or try to increase the programme's efficiency? If so, the incredible disconnect between the massive cuts by the Labour Party at Westminster—more cuts are forecast—and Labour's resistance of every attempt by public authorities to obtain better value for money is becoming a yawning gulf that will undermine the credibility of the entire Labour Party in Scotland, despite his attempt to be constructive with his question.


Size of Government

To ask the First Minister whether the Scottish Government considers that, given continuing pressure on the economy, the size of government should be getting smaller rather than bigger. (S3F-2174)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond):

Mr Purvis is well aware of the Government's efforts to deliver smaller and more effective government. We already have fewer ministers and departments and we are working to simplify and rationalise other parts of the public sector and to obtain value for money. The Budget (Scotland) (No 4) Bill includes a £14 million—or 5 per cent—reduction in our planned spending next year on core administration costs, which are largely made up of civil service salaries. In that context, it is unfortunate that he and his party are trying to block our efforts through the Public Services Reform (Scotland) Bill.

Our efficiency programme is enabling us to direct resources to front-line staff. That is one reason why, since we replaced the Labour-Liberal Administration and despite the financial restrictions under which we operate, there are 1,336 more nurses, 197 more dentists and 983 more police officers in Scotland.

Jeremy Purvis:

The First Minister is aware of the trend for the pay bill for the most senior executives in public service in Scotland to grow. On 5 June last year, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth wrote to ask the chairs of 28 public bodies and Government agencies, including Scottish Enterprise, Scottish Water and the Scottish Environment Protection Agency, to invite their chief executives not to take their bonuses this year. On 10 November, I lodged a parliamentary question to ask what response the Government received to that letter. I was due to receive a reply on 24 November, but to date I have not received one. How many of those bodies will not pay their chief executives bonuses this year? Why has it taken more than two months to answer my question?

The First Minister:

The central reason why answering the question takes time is that Mr Swinney has no power to instruct people not to take their bonuses. He has no power to instruct and can only request because the contracts were signed by a Government that had Liberal participation.

I and Mr Swinney accept—it is why we have frozen ministerial salaries and the salaries of senior civil servants who are directly under the Scottish Government's control—that asking people in the upper echelons to bear the heaviest burden is exactly the right policy to pursue. The reason why we must ask rather than rule is that the contracts were signed by Mr Purvis's party. Unless the Liberals suggest that we should break those contracts, he will have to wait for his answer until chief executives are kind enough to furnish Mr Swinney with answers to Mr Swinney's request.

Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):

I return to what the First Minister said earlier about constructive suggestions. I suggest that he should not back himself into a corner as regards the size of government. We should be talking about effective government and what is needed at the time. What we need right now is a full-time finance minister. That should be the focus of everyone's attention. I urge him—

Question please, Ms MacDonald.

It is a helpful suggestion, Presiding Officer.

It is meant to be a question.

I urge the First Minister not to listen to people who say that small is good. Some departments could be made smaller but others need more attention and bigger people.

The First Minister:

Neither of us is in a position to say that small is good all the time—I will resist the temptation to pursue that route.

Mr Swinney commands the full range of his brief and does so in an excellent fashion, as he demonstrates time after time.

Margo MacDonald made a constructive point; let me give a constructive answer. Earlier this week, Jeremy Purvis quoted some stats from the Office for National Statistics when he said that civil service numbers are increasing. He forgot to mention that more than 1,000 of the additional civil servants were taken on by the Department for Work and Pensions to deal with the implications for job centres of Labour's recession.

I think it is reasonable—I am sure the Liberal Democrats do, too—that job centres are properly staffed to meet people's requirements. Although the statistics indicate an increase in civil service numbers, it is a necessary increase because of the extent of the Labour Party's recession. Every member in the chamber will support that increase, whether or not they decide to use it mischievously in the statistics or press releases that they put out.

That concludes questions—and suggestions—to the First Minister.

Meeting suspended until 14:15.

On resuming—