Smoking Prevention Action Plan
The next item of business is a statement by Shona Robison—[Interruption.] Could we please have some order in the chamber? The next item of business is a statement by Shona Robison on the smoking prevention action plan. As the minister will take questions at the end of her 15-minute statement, there should be no interventions.
I am pleased to announce the publication today of our new action plan, which sets out a longer-term strategic approach to smoking prevention activity in Scotland. Although we will continue to do all that we can to help smokers to quit, the plan contains an ambitious programme of specific measures to discourage children and young people from starting to smoke and becoming regular smokers.
A generation after the health risks associated with smoking were demonstrated beyond dispute, smoking remains one of the principal causes of illness and premature death in Scotland. It is still linked to 13,000 deaths—and many more hospital admissions—each year. Apart from the human tragedy that those statistics represent, there is also a considerable resultant economic burden. The annual cost of hospital care alone is estimated at more than £200 million and of lost productivity at £450 million. Smoking also disproportionately affects those who are already disadvantaged by poverty and is a major contributor to health and premature mortality inequalities. As a result, tackling smoking-related harm lies at the heart of our health improvement and health inequalities drive.
In recent years, of course, significant progress has been made in reducing the cultural acceptability of smoking, including the bold and decisive legislative action taken by this Parliament in introducing the smoking ban and increasing the age of sale for tobacco from 16 to 18.
While the decline in population smoking in recent years is welcome, we must continue with firm action to reduce smoking's prevalence even further. Although we have already committed to continued investment in smoking cessation services, we also want to focus on preventing smoking uptake by children and young people.
Let me, if I may, remind members why a focus on children and young people is so vital. Smoking is dangerous at any age, but in this case the statistics are stark. Eighty per cent of smokers start in their teens. Moreover, the younger that people start, the more likely they are to smoke for longer and to die early as a result. Worst of all, someone who starts smoking at 15 is three times more likely to die of cancer than someone who starts in their mid-20s.
I am sure that members will agree that those are compelling reasons for shifting the focus more clearly towards smoking prevention. In a nutshell, we want to do everything we can to denormalise smoking within society in Scotland to help our young people in particular to choose not to smoke. Our proposals are in line with the Scottish Government's desire, as set out in its economic strategy, to create a more successful country with opportunities for all to flourish.
The proposals that are set out in "Scotland's Future is Smoke-free: A Smoking Prevention Action Plan", which is published today, were developed in consultation with the ministerial working group on tobacco control. I chair that group, and I am grateful for its members' advice and support.
I am grateful also to Dr Laurence Gruer and other members of the expert smoking prevention working group, whose recommendations form the basis of the measures in the action plan. The group thoroughly investigated the issues and, importantly, has provided a strong evidence base for our proposed action. Of course, its recommendations were subject to widespread consultation. I am grateful to all of those who took part in the consultation, including young people who fed in views through focus groups and a Young Scot online survey.
The crucial point is that, although individuals and organisations might take issue with particular recommendations, the consultation results were overwhelmingly positive on the need for a longer-term strategic approach to smoking prevention. They also gave the Scottish Government a strong mandate to act decisively to stop a new generation of young Scots from becoming addicted to tobacco.
The challenge is to make cigarettes and other tobacco products less affordable, less accessible and less attractive to children and young people. Of course, that cannot be achieved by the Scottish Government alone: ownership and action are required from a wide range of individuals and organisations, including national health service boards, local authorities, third sector bodies and the business sector.
What do we propose? We propose to deliver a co-ordinated programme of measures that respond to all the factors that influence behaviour. The plan sets out action in five broad areas. First, we propose to educate and to promote healthy lifestyles through measures that make clear to children and young people the risks that are associated with smoking and which do everything possible to counter the idea that there is any link between smoking and glamour, celebrity, maturity and independence. Actions that we will take in that regard include the promotion of an all-encompassing approach to health and wellbeing in Scottish schools, which will be fostered through health-promoting schools, the curriculum for excellence and improvements in substance misuse education in schools; more effective engagement with young people in non-school settings, such as in universities and further education colleges; and engagement with members of harder-to-reach groups, such as people who are not in employment, education or training, or those who are in occupations or settings in which smoking levels are higher than average. We will also ensure that tobacco issues are addressed fully in the new health improvement social marketing strategy to discourage smoking uptake and promote healthy, smoke-free lifestyles.
Secondly, we propose to reduce the attractiveness of cigarettes through measures that will counter positive images of cigarettes in the media and at points of sale, which will reduce the opportunities for children and young people to be exposed to smoking. All such measures are important, but the one that I expect to have the greatest impact is our proposal to introduce legislative controls to further restrict the display of tobacco products at points of sale. Even though tobacco advertising was banned in 2002, there are growing concerns that prominent and public displays of cigarettes and other tobacco products in shops and at other points of sale are undermining our wider tobacco control efforts to denormalise smoking by shifting cultural perceptions of smoking and discouraging young people from starting to smoke in the first place.
Children and young people have been found to be far more receptive to tobacco advertising than are adults. The evidence is clear: young people who are exposed to tobacco advertising and promotion are more likely to take up smoking. There is also evidence that displays stimulate impulse purchases among people who did not intend to buy cigarettes and, importantly, among smokers who are trying to give up. Giving cigarettes pride of place in shops—a position that is much sought after in product placement terms—sits uncomfortably with our ambition to create a climate in which everything possible is done to dissuade people, particularly children and young people, from smoking.
I know that sections of the retail sector will be concerned about restrictions on displays, which it fears will impact adversely on businesses. However, it is clear that point-of-sale display is being used as a promotional tool. Protecting children and young people from the impact of tobacco must be paramount. There are occasions when benefiting the public health of the nation must take precedence, and this is such an occasion.
As we move forward with the legislative process, I will engage fully with retailers on the proposal. International experience has shown that the implementation of tobacco display bans has not had a dramatic impact on local businesses. For example, following a ban on displays in one of the Canadian provinces, no shops were forced to close. Moreover, experience suggests that the cost of refit is largely borne by the tobacco wholesalers that supply tobacco products to the retail chains. The important point is that the removal of displays changes public perceptions of smoking.
Thirdly, we propose to reduce the availability of cigarettes by stepping up enforcement of tobacco sales law to ensure that cigarettes are not sold to minors and to prevent access to smuggled or counterfeit cigarettes. It is clear that, despite what the law says, underage young people have little difficulty accessing cigarettes if they want them. We will therefore pursue a two-pronged approach that involves more effective enforcement of the law by local authorities, which will be secured by introducing an enhanced tobacco sales enforcement programme coupled with increased emphasis on proof of age, and a review and update of tobacco sales law to introduce tobacco licensing and new sanctions, such as cautions and fixed-penalty notices for breaches of the law. We will also examine minimum pack sizes and sales from vending machines as part of the legislative review. This update of tobacco sales law is long overdue. Currently, the provisions governing tobacco sales are contained in the Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act 1937, which was last subject to a major review in 1991.
There are, of course, a number of possible licensing options, and in developing detailed legislative proposals we will examine them closely in consultation with key stakeholders, including the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, local authorities and retailers. My preference is for an approach that falls somewhere between the positive scheme favoured by Christine Grahame in her member's bill proposals and a negative licensing system that would bite only if retailers were found to be selling to underage young people. We are attracted to an approach that allows tobacco retailers to be clearly identified—which will enable trading standards officers and others to offer advice and support to them to avoid illegal sales—offers a proportionate response to the problem, is administratively simple and places the minimum burden on business.
The fourth area involves measures to reduce the affordability of cigarettes, which means ensuring that cigarette prices are sufficiently high to discourage children and young people from smoking. The price of tobacco products is one of the most important factors in determining consumption, so taxation policy is one of the main tools for preventing tobacco consumption. Of course, the availability of cheaper smuggled tobacco products—both cigarettes and loose tobacco—sold from vans at open-air markets and by other means in communities across Scotland undermines fiscal policies that are aimed at reducing tobacco consumption.
In addition to keeping pressure on the United Kingdom Government to ensure that tobacco duty remains sufficiently high, a protocol is being developed between Scottish trading standards services and HM Revenue and Customs on a collaborative approach to reduce the impact of those illicit products on Scottish communities. Such partnership working is important. Smuggled tobacco is more likely to be sold in deprived areas and it is increasingly targeted at children, so smuggling appears to have a disproportionate impact on young people in those areas and to be a factor in perpetuating health inequalities.
It is vital, too, that the action that we propose to tighten up illegal sales from legitimate business is matched by firm action on illicit tobacco sales. As part of the review and update of tobacco sales law, we will examine the question of minimum pack sizes. We know, for example, that young people are three to four times more price sensitive than adults, so as part of the legislative review we will consider the relationship between packs of 10 cigarettes and tobacco consumption, which I mentioned earlier.
The final area of the action plan describes how we will deliver, resource and measure progress. Much of the action in the plan will be delivered using existing resources, but in some cases there may be a requirement to refocus or prioritise efforts, for example in social marketing and communications activity.
We will continue to make substantial specific funding available for tobacco control. An additional £9 million will be made available over the next three years to boost delivery of actions in the plan and bring the total specific funding for tobacco control to £42 million from 2008-09 to 2010-11. That is in addition to the £2 million of annual funding that is allocated to tobacco control in national health service boards' unified budgets. The new £9 million is intended to support local delivery of the action plan, and £4.5 million will be allocated to NHS boards to enable then to co-ordinate action locally to underpin the proposed measures and to ensure that they are embedded in local tobacco control programmes. A similar amount will be allocated to local authorities to enable them to step up enforcement activity. We have also pledged to continue to support the activities of the voluntary sector—ASH Scotland's partnership action on tobacco and health, and the Scottish tobacco control alliance—to allow it to contribute fully to the plan's delivery.
In recognition of the actions proposed in the plan and to drive delivery, we have set new targets for 13 and 15-year-olds and introduced a new target for 16 to 24-year-olds. We will also establish a research and evaluation framework to assess impact.
In my statement I have provided a brief overview of our proposals. Our proposed programme is ambitious. Although I am sure that it will be welcomed as a whole, I am conscious that members might take issue with some elements of it. In particular, some members might question the need for further legislative action on tobacco. Nevertheless, given the devastation—I use the word advisedly—that tobacco has wreaked on the Scottish people, causing nearly 700,000 premature deaths during the past 50 years, we owe it to Scotland and to the Scottish people to take firm and decisive action to prevent damage to future generations. There are times when the public health benefits of a policy must be Government's overriding concern, and this is just such a time. The perceived benefits to society of preventing young people from taking up smoking supersede any minimal costs that might be imposed on Scottish tobacco retailers.
I am sure that no one in the Parliament takes issue with our desire to denormalise smoking in Scotland and to save our young people from the misery and distress of wholly preventable cancer and heart disease. By passing historic laws to ban smoking in public places in 2005, the Parliament showed that it was prepared to act collectively and courageously in the interests of public health. I call upon the Parliament to do so again by supporting the Scottish Government in our further endeavours to secure a healthier, smoke-free future for Scotland.
Members will realise that we are under considerable time pressure. I am keen to call all members who want to ask questions, so I ask all members, including front-bench members, to avoid unnecessary dialogue and to keep questions short and succinct.
I will try to assist you in that, Presiding Officer.
I welcome the minister's statement and thank her for providing an advance copy. I join her in commending the action plan, which is excellent. We entirely agree with many of the measures that are proposed, which follow the advances that have been achieved through the national ban on tobacco advertising and the ban on smoking in public places, which was a landmark for the UK.
There are worrying signs of a growing gap between the genders in relation to smoking habits. Some 12 per cent of 15-year-old boys smoke, whereas around 18 per cent of 15-year-old girls smoke. That needs to be addressed. I welcome the new targets for 16 to 24-year-olds, which will focus minds usefully.
The Royal Environmental Health Institute of Scotland and ASH Scotland have both expressed concern to me about the new system of funding through local authorities. According to REHIS, there is evidence that
"the funding may not even reach Environmental Health Departments, let alone be used specifically in support of smoke-free legislation."
In the context of proposed legislation and the emphasis on test purchasing, will the minister say how she will secure with local authorities clear agreements on delivery?
My second and final question relates to budgets. According to Scottish Government replies to parliamentary questions, the smoking cessation budget has been reduced from £601,000 to £500,000 and will flatline, the voluntary sector budget is being reduced from £770,000 to £737,000 and will flatline, and the communications budget is being reduced from £601,000 to £500,000 and will flatline. How will that approach support the Government's proper emphasis on the problem of smoking through smoking cessation measures, through support for the voluntary sector—which delivers for young people in particular—and through focused communication?
I thank Richard Simpson for his supportive comments.
The disparity between boys' and girls' smoking levels is a reason for the new more specific targets, which will help us to monitor progress on that front.
On funding for enforcement, an additional £4.5 million for local authorities will be allocated under the terms of the concordat between the Scottish Government and local government. We are in the process of agreeing a set of outcomes with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, local authorities and the Society of Chief Officers of Trading Standards in Scotland, which will ensure a consistent approach to enforcement. Test purchasing programmes will be part of that.
I will tell Dr Simpson about outcome measures that we are considering. We are, for example, considering an increased target for enforcement activity at retail level under which 10 per cent of tobacco retailers would be subject to test purchasing, with that figure increasing to 15 per cent by 2011. The targets that we expect local authorities to deliver under the terms of the concordat are specific and, of course, authorities are very keen to deliver. In putting together the proposals, we had a close working relationship with COSLA, whose member authorities are very much signed up to the process.
On the smoking cessation budget, I say again to Richard Simpson, for the sake of clarity, that the Government is investing £33 million over the next three years. That compares to £27 million over the previous comprehensive spending review period, so the budget increase is £6 million. We want to use the resource to target people better, including young people. Thus far, the experience of delivering smoking cessation activity to groups, particularly young people in more deprived communities, has not been good. We want to get that right.
I also say to Richard Simpson that, as part of our agreements with the community pharmacy sector, we are looking to extend access to smoking cessation support and to complement the wider range of smoking cessation services that health boards provide to help smokers to successfully stop smoking. We are working with community pharmacists across Scotland to provide a national smoking cessation service as part of the public health service element of the new contract. All that adds up to good input into smoking cessation.
I am still trying to get my head around what Robert Brown imagines Eskimos wear when they go swimming.
I add my customary thanks to the minister for advanced sight of what is, undeniably, a busy statement. The minister rightly states that she intends to focus on actions to deter young people from smoking, noting that smoking commences in the teenage years. Does she share my view that education to curtail that trend needs to start earlier than that? In addition to the bodies that she mentioned in her statement, parents too must be made aware—whatever their practice—of their responsibility to discourage yet another generation from becoming smokers.
We welcome the action regarding proof of age and more rigorous enforcement. However, in terms of drawing up her strategy on retail premises, will the minister take into account the concerns of small retailers? Typically, only one person is on duty in such outlets and all the stock on sale is on view and to hand. If the retailer is required to take their attention from the store in order to retrieve items from a concealed area, such retail premises may be made open to increased incidence of theft.
We share the minister's view that the more administratively simple a licensing scheme is, the better. However, anyone of any age can access products from vending machines. The minister's committing merely to look at sales from vending machines is possibly the weakest component of her statement. Why is that component so weak?
I confirm our belief that parents have a critical role—of course we want to involve them. As part of our emphasis on denormalisation of smoking, we need to involve parents. They need to set themselves up as role models for their children and to not smoke in front of them. We must try to put across messages such as that, which we will do as part of our social marketing campaign.
I turn to the concerns of small retailers in respect of the safety and potential theft of stock. We will discuss the detail of implementation with retailers, including the procedures that should be put in place, such as storing stock below the counter or installation of screens. There are international examples of that, including in Ireland where retailers are required to store tobacco products below the counter. In Nova Scotia, it has been done, but slightly differently. There are international examples on the best way forward.
As a point of principle, we will do this. We will of course involve retailers in discussion about the details of measures that are to be introduced and we will take on board the issues that small retailers have raised.
On vending machines, we want to look at the evidence base on what is best. Should we remove vending machines entirely or have token-operated machines? A number of options are available to us. We will take action: we are simply deciding on the type of action that we should take. We want to look at the evidence in more detail before we decide on the most appropriate route.
I thank the minister for the advance notice of her statement. Clearly, in common with all members, the Liberal Democrats support the continuation of measures to make Scotland a smoke-free zone—if that is the current language.
We welcome much that is in the statement. The only matter that we wish to probe further is the legislative review, to which the minister referred in the latter part of her answer to Jackson Carlaw. Given that almost everything in the statement and the action plan is based on the recommendations from the smoking prevention working group, you therefore have available a considerable body of evidence on many of the matters. Will you tell members whether you intend to inject some urgency into the legislative review? You said that you will consider introducing minimum pack sizes, and page 14 of your statement mentions the compelling evidence that children are more susceptible to the influence of price. Therefore, what other evidence do you need before you proceed to tackle those issues?
Jackson Carlaw rightly asked about vending machines. We know from the British Medical Association that the Scottish data say that one in 10 regular smokers aged 13 to 15 reported buying cigarettes from vending machines. In common with Jackson Carlaw, I am unclear as to what further evidence you require before taking more urgent action.
Finally—
Very briefly, please.
Sorry—I will be quick. Christine Grahame's consultation on her proposed member's bill on the issue sets out the case for a positive licensing scheme while acknowledging that a negative scheme could be used. However, I am intrigued to know what a hybrid scheme is. Something is either a negative licence or it is not. Can you help us on that? I hope that the issue will not delay the introduction of legislation.
I am not sure that Mr Finnie's definition of "briefly" and mine are exactly in tune.
I caution members please not to use the second person singular. I do not know how long I am going to have to go on about that, but I will go on as long as it takes.
I say to Ross Finnie that there will be no delay. We will legislate at the earliest legislative opportunity, which is likely to be in 2009-10. There is no question of our having to gather evidence on the principle of our proposals. However, various options exist in respect of the details of how we progress with implementation.
The licensing system to which I pointed would in essence be a system that would require people who sell tobacco products to register. Trading standards officers would thereby have a system and a list to work with to ensure that retailers were complying. If, for example, a retailer was found to be selling tobacco products to underage people, the retailer would be removed from the register and would no longer be able to sell those products. That goes some way beyond a traditional negative licensing system, but it does not go as far as a positive system. I believe that that strikes the right balance, although the proposal will be subject to more discussion as the legislative process continues.
We come to questions from back-bench members. Ten members wish to ask questions and I have 10 minutes to fit them in, so that is fairly simple.
My question will be brief because Ross Finnie has asked part of it. I turn to the comments on the proposed legislative scheme. Minister, now that you have said that—
Second person singular, Ms Grahame.
Minister, can you tell me—
No—you should say, "Can the minister tell me", not, "Can you tell me". I am the only "you".
I beg your pardon—I must learn. I will start again.
First, can the minister tell me the difference between registration and licensing? I feel so inhibited now. Secondly, I believe that the scheme is to be mandatory. Will you confirm that and, if it is to be mandatory, what would be the penalties? [Laughter.] Have I done it again?
Please continue.
This is taking ages.
Will the minister keep an open mind in relation to my proposals? I intend to publish the responses to the consultation on my proposed member's bill next week. Of the respondents, 58 per cent are in favour of positive licensing and an additional 7 per cent are in favour of any form of licensing, so that makes 65 per cent in favour.
Briefly, please.
My proposals are much more radical and would deal with vending machines. Will the minister give due consideration to the responses to my consultation?
The debate on Christine Grahame's member's bill proposal has been useful and has helped to bring to the surface many of the licensing issues. It will certainly help us in developing our legislative proposals. I reiterate that my concern is to come up with a system that meets our need to know who the retailers are and to ensure that the law is adhered to.
Of course, a registration system requires people to register, although it does not require them to receive or apply for a licence, as Christine Grahame has been advocating. The proposal goes some way towards creating a system in which we would know who the retailers are. The list can then be monitored and worked with by trading standards officers.
On the new penalty system that we wish to introduce, we would want to give trading standards officers a bigger toolbox of sanctions, including the power to issue cautions and fixed-penalty notices, which could be used against those who would flout the law. Retailers could, under a registration system, lose the right to sell if they were to breach the law by selling to underage people, for example. That would be a good package of measures to ensure that swift action could be taken against those who flout the law.
Will the Scottish Government introduce a debate on this subject, given that we have had a curtailed time in which to discuss it this afternoon?
In the drive to target resources at those who are most in need of intervention, will health boards be directed to spend more in deprived communities and on deprived individuals?
What specific actions is the Government introducing to tackle the gender gap in smoking behaviours?
I will take the last question first. The new targets focus very much on smoking rates among girls and boys so that we can monitor the success of targeting in smoking cessation plans for girls and whether the message is getting across to girls in the same way as it is to boys. We know that the rate of smoking among boys is falling more quickly than it is among girls, which is the reason for the new targets.
On the question about deprived areas, the answer is, of course, yes. Under the new smoking cessation targets for young people, we want to get to the people who are harder to reach. We will test new smoking cessation measures in harder-to-reach communities, and we will particularly target young people. We will ensure that measures for communities in which there is greatest need in terms of reducing smoking levels are adequately resourced, so that those needs can be met.
On the debate that Margaret Curran calls for, it is not my fault that the discussion this afternoon has been curtailed. I am happy, however, to bring forward the terms of a debate after the summer recess. There will, throughout the legislative process, be plenty of opportunity to discuss the matter, for ample scrutiny and to debate many of the issues.
I ask for strictly one question per member from now on, please.
I warmly welcome the minister's comprehensive statement and the publication of the smoking action plan. Astonishingly, a minority of people, particularly young people, believe that smoking's adverse impacts come more in later life. Some young women and girls wrongly perceive that smoking might even have benefits.
A question, please.
That might contribute to the gender gap. Can the minister clarify what specific steps will be taken to tackle myths among young people such as the those that say that smoking helps slimming, that it reduces stress and that it is not highly addictive?
I absolutely agree that those are crucial elements. The overarching aim is to change the image of smoking and to denormalise smoking. Improvements in substance misuse education will be very important. A lot of work is going on to make such education more relevant to young people and to ensure that we target young people who are not in employment, education or training, who are the hardest to reach. We will be considering more imaginative ways of doing that in order to achieve a better reach through the policy.
The minister has suggested that she will introduce legislation in 2009-10. Given the concerns about vending machines and minimum pack sizes, will she commit to returning to Parliament at the earliest opportunity to let us know what her thinking is on those matters, and on how it will inform whether those measures will be included in the eventual legislation?
I am happy to do that. We can explore some of those matters in the debate that I am happy to bring forward after the summer recess. I am clear that the debate will not be on the principle of whether we should introduce the measures that I have set out: the question is about how we will do it.
There are options on vending machines: we could ban them outright or we could restrict their use through use of tokens. Those are legitimate areas for debate on implementation of what we want to achieve, and I am happy to have that debate.
Will the restrictions on displays at the point of sale apply equally to supermarkets and small shops? Will there be a consequential increase in the number of trading standards officers and school nurses?
The restrictions will absolutely apply in the same way to supermarkets as they will to other retailers.
As I said, £4.5 million in additional resources is going to local authorities over the next three years. That equates to a minimum of one new trading standards officer per local authority. Obviously, given the breakdown of the resources, the larger local authorities will have many more than that, but there will be a minimum of one additional officer per local authority. The work that they will carry out with the health boards will be important. The input from community nurses and work with parents and children will all be joined up as part of the way in which we will implement our proposals.
The minister said that, in making legislative progress, there will be full engagement with retailers. Given that there are already examples of good and bad practice, what engagement has she had with retailers before making her statement today?
We have been engaging with retailers and getting their views. Retailers also sit on the working group that came up with the proposals. There has been a vigorous debate on some of the proposals, and the retail sector supports a lot of the stuff in the plan, although perhaps not every item. For example, it is keen on the action that we want to take on tobacco smuggling, which undermines legitimate tobacco sales. Although retailers support elements of the plan, it is important that we engage them further on the detail of implementation, but not on the principle, which has been agreed.
The minister referred in her statement to restricting advertising displays for the sale of cigarettes in shops, including supermarkets. Will she also consider the physical location of cigarette counters in many of our large supermarkets? They are designed to be the last port of call, where customers can get their cigarettes and lottery tickets on their way out the door. Even once the displays are taken away, those cigarette counters will continue to have highly prominent locations within large supermarkets. Will she consider how we can ensure that they are not in such prominent locations in such premises?
I am certainly willing to give that point further consideration as we implement the detail in legislative proposals.
Research suggests that under-16s are much more likely than other tobacco consumers are to use newsagents, tobacconists and local shops to buy cigarettes. To ensure that that is acted on, will targets be set—as part of the single outcome agreements—for test purchasing and prosecutions of shopkeepers who sell tobacco to underage smokers?
We are considering the outcomes at the moment. One of the outcomes that we are working on is to reduce the percentage of retailers who sell cigarettes to persons under 18, and the target that is being discussed is to reduce it to 10 per cent by 2011. The issue features strongly in the outcomes that are being discussed with COSLA at the moment.
I am afraid that we now have to move on to the next item of business, so I express my regrets to members whom I was unable to call.