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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Tuesday, June 16, 2015


Contents


Topical Question Time


Headteachers (Black and Minority Ethnic Backgrounds)

To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to figures suggesting that there are no head or deputy headteachers from black or minority ethnic backgrounds. (S4T-01060)

The Minister for Learning, Science and Scotland’s Languages (Dr Alasdair Allan)

The Government is committed to equality. We want to see a diverse education workforce that reflects Scottish society. Statistics indicate that around 2 per cent of the teaching workforce and around 1 per cent of individuals in promoted posts are from a black or minority ethnic background. As employers, local authorities have the responsibility of ensuring that their recruitment practices are fair and inclusive, and the Scottish Government is committed to working with local authorities on this matter.

Liam McArthur

Last week, the Scottish Government said that it was ensuring that the masters qualification for headship, which is due to be in place in 2018-19, is fully impact assessed. I think that the minister would agree that that is not good enough.

The Government is rightly proud of its record on the number of women who hold Cabinet positions and on its work on gender equality generally. Does the minister not agree that it is time to widen the Government’s equalities work to give greater opportunity to those from BME backgrounds? If so, what specific further steps does the Government propose to take to remove barriers for those from BME backgrounds to reaching the top of the teaching profession?

Dr Allan

The member is, of course, right to say that we need to promote equalities and diversity in all aspects of the teaching profession. The new masters qualification to which he refers—the masters qualification for headship, which will be mandatory from 2018-19—will be fully equality impact assessed by the Scottish College for Educational Leadership so that it is fair and accessible for all.

As the member indicated, we have put some effort into ensuring that there is more of a balance between the genders in the future, particularly in primary school, and into encouraging men to come forward for the teaching profession. The member is right to say that, equally, we need to ensure that our teaching workforce is reflective and representative of Scotland’s population as a whole.

There are one or two points that I could point to in the statistics that are referred to in the question, but suffice it to say that we all want to improve the situation and to make it clear that people from all ethnic minority backgrounds are welcome in the teaching profession and are equally likely to be promoted.

Liam McArthur

Teaching unions have also raised concerns about the overall number of teachers from BME backgrounds in the profession. In order to establish ways of making the progress to which the minister has alluded, has the Scottish Government undertaken any analytical work on the reasons for the lack of diversity in our schools workforce, particularly among those in senior management positions, that might inform future decisions about how to remove the obstacles that exist?

Dr Allan

I am very willing to work with Education Scotland and others to establish some of the reasons for that. Anecdotally, there are many possible reasons for it. It might be that other professions and other parts of our public life are, for whatever reason, more diverse and more representative than the teaching profession is. Another possible reason might be to do with the progression of teachers in their careers.

It is worth saying that the data is slightly complex and is capable of being interpreted in a couple of different ways. I do not say that to get away from the member’s central point. For example, there are some people who would define themselves as minority ethnic who would fall within the “White: Other” category. Across all publicly funded sectors, the number of individuals in promoted posts—principal teacher, deputy head and headteacher—who fall within non-white ethnic groups is 102. I say none of that to take away from Liam McArthur’s central point, which is that we should be encouraging much more diversity in our schools.

Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab)

I would have thought that one of the first steps in increasing the number of members of the black and minority ethnic community who hold senior management posts in schools would be to increase the pool of available candidates in the general teaching workforce. Has the minister had any discussions with the Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council or teacher training institutions on the percentage of their intake who come from BME backgrounds?

Dr Allan

Notwithstanding the point that the member makes, the Government is not in a position to dictate to the General Teaching Council for Scotland, which is an independent body, or others on such matters. Obviously, we do not operate a system of quotas. However, we need to get to the bottom of why the teaching profession might not be as attractive to people from black and minority ethnic backgrounds as perhaps other professions are. We need to work with the GTCS and, indeed, the universities that are providing initial teacher education in order to examine the issues, which is what I intend to do.


Caledonian MacBrayne (Workforce Concerns)

To ask the Scottish Government how it is responding to the concerns of the CalMac workforce, who have recently been balloted for strike action. (S4T-01065)

The Minister for Transport and Islands (Derek Mackay)

CalMac’s ferry services play a crucial role in the daily lives of our island communities, and the Scottish Government has made clear its commitment to the continued delivery of a safe and reliable ferry network. We want to protect CalMac employees by ensuring that a fair, affordable and sustainable pension scheme is written into the next ferry service operating contract. I encourage CalMac and the unions to continue with the current process of engagement on proposed changes to the pension scheme and to work together towards an outcome that avoids the need for industrial action. I have had two constructive meetings with the CalMac unions and the Scottish Trades Union Congress in recent weeks, and I have offered to continue that dialogue.

David Stewart

The minister will be well aware that more than 90 per cent of members of the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers at CalMac voted for industrial action as they have genuine and heartfelt concerns over job security, conditions and, particularly, pensions. The Scottish Government owns CalMac. What specific actions is the minister going to carry out to resolve this very unsatisfactory and worryingly poor climate of industrial relations?

Derek Mackay

We will ensure that the processes that we are responsible for are carried out competently. I repeat that we want to give the assurance to CalMac employees that we continue to support the services by investing in them. We will conduct a procurement exercise that is in keeping with the legislation—the same legislation that the previous Labour Administration would have had to comply with in procuring services—and our guarantees around the pension.

To put the issue in context, we are aware that there is an identified pension deficit, which is up to £59 million following the revaluation of the pension. The trade unions are not resisting reform, and I am very mindful of what their issues are. That is why continued dialogue and meetings undertaken in a constructive and positive fashion are necessary and right. I will do everything that I can as minister to support those discussions. However, our support for this public service is absolutely resolute.

David Stewart

Does the minister share the views of the RMT general secretary, who said:

“RMT members on CalMac feel that they are caught in the crossfire of an unnecessary and damaging tendering battle that leaves jobs, conditions and pensions hanging by a thread”?

Surely the Scottish Government has learned the lessons of the fiasco of the northern isles contract award, when Serco axed a crossing and sacked staff.

Derek Mackay

I certainly understand why employees would feel nervous when their jobs are subject to a procurement exercise, which is of course the same procurement exercise that a Labour Administration would have to undertake and one that, under the legislation, we cannot escape. That is why we set a very robust specification for the services that we want. We are investing in the ferry network with new vessel provision as well, and we will support employees through the process.

Can I be clear about what is being procured? Regardless of the ownership status of the successful bidder, the ferry services are not being privatised. What is being tendered is a public service contract to operate lifeline services on behalf of Scottish ministers. The operator will have to comply with a service specification defined by Scottish ministers that will, as now, be subject to stringent contract management conditions. All the vessels and ports that are currently in public ownership will remain in public ownership and, together with the Clyde and Hebrides services, will remain under public control by Scottish ministers throughout the contract. This is therefore not privatisation, as some elements of the Labour Party are suggesting.

Shame!

Derek Mackay

I can hear that that is much to the regret of the Conservatives who are to my right, both literally and politically.

We will protect our public services and conduct the current procurement exercise in a manner that is in keeping with European and other relevant legislation, and we will arrive at the right decision by which to protect the lifeline services. We will also support employees through what I accept is a difficult process.

Alex Johnstone

Will the minister give a guarantee that, in reacting to the action of the trade unions at CalMac, he will also have as his highest priority through the tendering process value for money for the taxpayer and a quality service for the fare-paying passenger?

Derek Mackay

These issues are about balance. It is a matter of fact that there was a deficit in the pension fund and the Scottish Government has been supporting that. We will look at the assessments and the revaluation once again and, through the employer’s dialogue with the trade unions, continue that discussion, but we will do it in a culture of positivity and a constructive approach in which we encourage CalMac and the unions to talk and to work together so that we can all avoid any industrial action. As I said, I am sure that that climate will lead to a positive outcome in keeping with all the necessary considerations.

Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)

Let me get this right. A service that is currently run by the public sector may be run by the private sector, and that is not privatisation. The reality is that the northern ferries have gone to Serco, the sleeper has gone to Serco and ScotRail has gone to the Dutch company Abellio. Is it any wonder that the RMT and its members have no confidence in the minister’s handling of what is going on at the moment?

Derek Mackay

I say to Neil Findlay that I recall what privatisation looks like as delivered by the Tory Government and it is the ripping apart of public services and leaving them to the private sector. That is not what is being proposed. We are talking about public services and the provision of services as specified by ministers, and they will remain in the ownership of the Scottish ministers and under their direction.

Neil Findlay, as is not unexpected, uses intemperate language. He would do well not to try to stoke up grievance and create a toxic situation for the employees. We should be looking after the employees of CalMac—[Interruption.]

Mr Findlay, stop heckling.

Derek Mackay

—and working in partnership with the trade unions to arrive at a positive outcome so that we can continue to provide these public services in the interests of the communities that they serve, and we will continue to do that in keeping with the law. Does Neil Findlay suggest that we should break the law? Does he think that that would leave us in a satisfactory position? No—it would lead to challenge, and the people who would suffer if we did not deliver the procurement exercise in keeping with the necessary procurement legislation would be the communities and the staff.