Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013

Official Report 759KB pdf

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Topical Question Time

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College Student Numbers

1. To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the reported decline in the number of college students. (S4T-00279)

The latest figures from the Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council tell a positive story about what is being achieved in our colleges. We have exceeded our commitment to maintaining full-time equivalent student numbers; retention and attainment are increasing; and record numbers of 16 to 24-year-olds are undertaking full-time, economically relevant courses that will significantly enhance their employment prospects. Those are important indicators of what we are building in the college sector—focused provision leading to improved attainment and creating better life chances.

Those achievements should not be obscured by a fixation on head count. I have explained on many occasions that head count is a volatile measure that fails to take any account of the intensity and economic importance of provision. I shall shortly make clear my priorities for the additional £10 million of investment for the academic year 2013-14.

Surely, even by the cabinet secretary’s definition, 120,000 fewer students cannot be explained away by citing volatility. Does he think that 120,000 fewer students are just another false concept?

I have been at pains to explain to Mr Findlay the concept of head count and the fact that head count of the type to which he refers does not reflect what is taking place in colleges. It compares unlike with unlike and lists very short courses of limited economic relevance in exactly the same way as it would list full-time courses of economic relevance.

If Mr Findlay cared to drill into the figures that have been published, he would see some interesting details. For example, the average number of hours of learning per student has increased by 12 per cent in the past year and by 36 per cent since 2006-07, reflecting the decline in very short programmes and an increase in the number of students studying towards more substantial qualifications. That indicates that the student experience is producing employability as the main issue. That will, inevitably, produce a decline in certain types of short courses and a stability in overall numbers, which is what we have seen.

The fact is that there was no increase in learning for the 120,000 students who are no longer in college. Does the cabinet secretary accept that women, adult returners and students with learning disabilities are disproportionately affected in the figure of 120,000?

There is no figure of 120,000 students who are—I use Mr Findlay’s words—“no longer in college”. The numbers reflect the fact that many individuals are now undertaking longer courses. I return to the point that to compare a short course of the type that we are talking about with a full-time or largely full-time course that leads to employability is to compare two things that are unalike.

Mr Findlay raises an important issue about those who are furthest from employment and furthest from learning. The purpose of reform is to ensure that everybody is brought closer to employment as a result of involvement in the college system, and that is what is taking place. Where there is need for particular effort through the reforms that are taking place—for example, with those who have learning difficulties—we have worked with and are working with key organisations in that regard. I have discussed with colleges the way in which the money that is being made available now will focus on some of those groups.

It is and has been the intention of reform to make employability the key issue, and I am glad that that has been welcomed by Colleges Scotland in its response to the figures.

The policy memorandum to the Post-16 Education (Scotland) Bill states that education provision will be

“more responsive to the needs of learners and employers.”

Colleges and employers have made the point that there is increasing scope for part-time courses, particularly through local delivery. How does that square with the figures that were announced last week?

It squares very well with those figures. I visit colleges on many occasions. Indeed, I have been in three colleges in the past eight days. I meet students, the staff and employers. Everywhere I go, there is a focus on ensuring that learning is appropriate, and the regional nature of provision will allow that to be the case.

There is variety in that delivery, but all the employers whom I meet recognise that the changes that we are making will produce a greater emphasis on employability, and they welcome that. I would be happy for the member to accompany me on college visits to meet some of those employers so that she can see at first hand that the changes are the very things that employers need.

When I published the results of a freedom of information request last month that suggested a loss of 85,000 part-time places over the past three years, it was suggested by the cabinet secretary’s spokesperson that I should “catch up” with the real figures. Now that the cabinet secretary’s own figures have not only caught up with but exceeded the figures that I published, what assurances can he give that the loss of the part-time places that were particularly valuable to women learners, adult learners and others will not result in decreased opportunities for those groups?

A substantial number of part-time opportunities are still available. The suggestion that Mr McArthur should “catch up” probably refers largely to the reforms that are taking place and the positive benefits of those reforms. If Mr McArthur cared to look at the full detail of the figures that were published last week, he would recognise that, for example, college performance indicators are improving year on year.

In 2011-12, 64 per cent of full-time students—[Interruption.] I am sorry that Tavish Scott does not want to listen to the figures. They are important to college learners and to Scotland, and they are an important indication of the improvements that are taking place.

In 2011-12, 64 per cent of full-time students studying for a recognised further education qualification successfully completed their course, which represents an increase from 62 per cent in the previous year; 69 per cent of full-time students studying for a recognised higher education qualification successfully completed their course, which represents an increase from 67 per cent; 67 per cent of 16 to 19-year-olds successfully completed their course, which represents an increase from 64 per cent; and 68 per cent of 20 to 24-year-olds successfully completed their course, which represents an increase from 67 per cent. [Interruption.]

I am very sorry that Tavish Scott still does not want to listen to what are important facts on the changes that are taking place, which are improving college education year on year. If, unfortunately, Liberal Democrats do not wish to listen to information about the improvements, they will be fated to being—as they have been in almost every debate in the Parliament—in the tiny minority of people who will not change and who will not prioritise good things in Scotland, and the electoral tide will overwhelm them yet again.

Will the cabinet secretary give any assistance to those students with learning disabilities who can no longer access courses at local colleges?

I have answered that question from Mr Henry and his colleagues on a number of occasions, and I will answer it again in the same way: I have met the organisations that are concerned with those students and have asked them to put forward proposals. I will meet those organisations again shortly, and I am keen that we put their proposals in place. I discuss that issue regularly when I meet colleges. In addition, I hope that the outcome agreements can encompass such issues.

I have mentioned all that in previous answers. All those things are happening, and they all express the concerns that we have that the entirety of those people who are served by colleges are well served.

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Scottish Water Horizons

2. To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with Scottish Water regarding the decision to curtail the activities of Scottish Water Horizons. (S4T-00280)

Scottish Water has notified the Government of its decision to withdraw from green waste composting activities. Scottish Water has reviewed the business focus of its Horizons subsidiary and has decided to focus more fully on its renewable energy portfolio, in which it considers that it can achieve better returns on investment.

Although green waste will no longer be accepted at Deerdykes, the food waste recycling operation will remain operational, and it will continue to make a major contribution to our zero waste and renewable energy ambitions. Employees who are affected by the changes will be transferred to other roles, either at Deerdykes or elsewhere in Scottish Water. Renewable energy remains a key priority and Scottish Water will continue to focus on wind, hydro and food waste projects.

Will the cabinet secretary outline what the full impact will be on the Deerdykes site in Cumbernauld? Does she agree that Scottish Water’s decision raises a number of issues to do with the implementation of green waste contracts that have been entered into with local authorities in the immediate area?

As far as the impact on Deerdykes is concerned, although the composting activities will cease, the food recycling activity will continue. I understand that all existing customer contracts will be honoured until they expire in 2014. As I said in my initial answer, employees who are affected by the changes will be transferred to other roles. Some of them will be transferred to other roles at Deerdykes, while others will be transferred to other roles in Scottish Water’s wider operations.

I should stress that none of that undermines Scottish Water’s ambition on renewable energy. Just yesterday, I visited a very exciting new Scottish Water hydro initiative in Denny, where a particular turbine will produce enough electricity to power 150 homes. Scottish Water is focused on ensuring that it meets its renewables obligations and that it does so in a way that delivers the highest possible return.

I thank the cabinet secretary for that response and for her assurances about the climate change targets of the Scottish Government and Scottish Water.

Are any discussions taking place about other subsidiaries of Scottish Water and their future operation?

None that are particularly relevant to this question, but I am more than happy to ask Scottish Water to meet John Wilson, if he would be interested in discussing the issues in more detail. When I visited Denny yesterday to launch the project that I have just spoken about, I met the chair and the chief executive of Scottish Water. As I have been in the past, I was impressed by their commitment to renewable energy projects and to ensuring that, as well as delivering a high-quality customer service, Scottish Water is doing its bit to reduce its environmental footprint, to contribute towards carbon emissions targets and to play its wider role in our environmental objectives. However, I am sure that any member who wants to discuss that with Scottish Water in more detail will find it very willing to do so.

Does the cabinet secretary believe that it is reasonable for Scottish Water Horizons not to publish details of the review that it carried out of its waste business before reaching its very significant decision?

I am more than happy to discuss with Scottish Water the provision of information. As I said to John Wilson, I am sure that Scottish Water would be happy to discuss the issue in more detail with any member. Scottish Water looked at the Horizons issue very much from a business focus and decided that it was better for it to focus fully on the renewable energy portfolio, because it considers that that will deliver a better return. It is important to point out again that, as I know members are aware, Scottish Water customers are fully protected from the impact of any activities that are carried out by the Horizons subsidiary. I think that Scottish Water was right to take its decision on the basis and in the way that it has. However, I am sure that it would be happy to discuss further the reasons underpinning the decision with any member who is so interested.