Public Appointments (Draft Equalities Strategy)
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-1464, in the name of Keith Brown on behalf of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee, on its report on the draft public appointments equalities strategy, "Diversity Delivers".
The motion calls on the Parliament to agree that the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee's report and the Official Report of today's debate form the Parliament's response to the consultation by the Commissioner for Public Appointments in Scotland on her draft equalities strategy.
On 21 November, the commissioner lodged with the Parliament an equalities consultation document entitled "Diversity Delivers" that included a draft equalities strategy. The Equal Opportunities Committee and my committee then took evidence from the commissioner.
The Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee's report not only reflects our views on the draft strategy but takes into account those of the Equal Opportunities Committee. Broadly, we give the strategy a warm welcome.
The boards of public bodies play a vital role in ensuring that those bodies meet the needs of the communities they serve by delivering services effectively and efficiently, and their work can impact on all aspects of Scottish life. Although the committee recognises and commends the work that is undertaken by board members, it also recognises that, at present, board membership does not fully represent the diversity of Scottish society.
The draft strategy seeks to improve the diversity of applications for board membership by raising awareness of the value of public bodies and the role of board members, by ensuring that the public appointments process is encouraging, accessible and easy to use, and by supporting future board members through a range of development and education programmes.
The committee agrees that increasing diversity in board membership can only benefit boards' decision making. The strategy highlights evidence that groups that are more diverse in their skills and knowledge have more potential than less diverse groups to consider a greater range of perspectives and to generate more high-quality solutions to problems.
At present, the Office of the Commissioner for Public Appointments in Scotland and the Scottish Government are responsible for ensuring that appointments are made fairly and openly. The Scottish Government decides on the form of publicity and the skills that are required for each post and ministers ultimately appoint the successful candidate, while the commissioner regulates the process through her assessors. The committee believes that extending that co-operation to delivery of the equalities strategy is a sensible step.
We heard evidence that equalities strategies can fail when there is no clear ownership of any recommendations, but the draft strategy proposes the establishment of an implementation group to ensure that each recommendation is delivered. We agree with that and with the proposal that the implementation group should allocate responsibility for each action that is proposed in the strategy.
We welcome the proposal that the implementation group comprise a diverse range of stakeholders including the commissioner, the Scottish Government's diversity champion, a chair of a public body and the Scotland commissioner of the Equality and Human Rights Commission. We agreed that membership could, if appropriate, be extended to include a Scottish minister or Scottish Government representative in order to raise the profile and importance of the strategy, but we agreed with the Equal Opportunities Committee that, given its role in scrutinising the final agreed equalities strategy, it would not be appropriate for a member of that committee to sit on the implementation group.
The Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee commends specific actions in the strategy such as the communications campaign and the hub website and recommend that those aspects be more proactively targeted at the groups that are underrepresented on boards.
I reiterate the importance of boards and of ensuring that they reflect the diversity of Scottish society. Although we have recommended some changes, the committee believes that this draft strategy represents an important first step in encouraging applications for board membership from across civic Scotland.
I move,
That the Parliament agrees that the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee's 2nd Report, 2008 (Session 3):
Draft Public Appointments Equalities Strategy – Diversity Delivers (SP Paper 65), together with the Official Report of the Parliament's debate on the report, should form the Parliament's response to the consultation by the Office of the Commissioner for Public Appointments in Scotland.
I welcome the opportunity to participate in this short debate on the proposed strategy, "Diversity Delivers". I commend the consultation as an excellent first step towards ensuring that appointees to public bodies represent the make-up of the people of Scotland. As a member of the Equal Opportunities Committee and of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee, I twice had the opportunity to scrutinise the strategy and to question the Commissioner for Public Appointments in Scotland. I commend her enthusiasm for delivering diversity.
Scotland has a diverse civic society that we should celebrate. We need to mainstream equalities in every aspect of public life, whether positions are elected or appointed. It is only right to encourage people from low-wage backgrounds, women, ethnic minorities and the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender communities to enter public life.
Public bodies are subject to the general legal duties to promote gender, disability and race equality, as well as to wider equality obligations not to discriminate on various grounds. The present figures on public appointments make hard reading: women make up only 35 per cent of board members and only 17 per cent of chairs of public bodies. It would be interesting to find out the make-up of the selection boards for those appointments.
In such a diverse Scotland, it is hard to believe that the best candidates are mostly white middle-class males. I agree with the committee's report that a more proactive approach is necessary and should be evaluated over a longer timescale. No targets have been set, for fear of tokenism, but that is still an important first step in ensuring that the necessary cultural step change occurs and that adequate monitoring takes place. The commissioner explained that that is why the equalities strategy focuses on applications rather than appointments. Achieving the desired changes is difficult because of the low turnover of appointees, reappointments and mergers.
The Scottish Parliament is right to have equal opportunities at its core and it is essential that Scotland's public bodies follow that lead. When public funds are used, there should be a public duty to recruit talent from Scotland's diverse communities.
Equality training is particularly needed for those who deal with selection for and recruitment to public bodies. It is essential that such organisations are aware not only of their responsibilities, but of how to implement them. An absolute requirement is that chairpersons and selection panels have adequate training in equal opportunities, not just for selection, but for the work of public bodies.
I support the motion.
I welcome the debate and thank members of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee for curtailing their speeches to allow me to speak as the convener of the Equal Opportunities Committee.
At its meeting on 15 January 2008, the Equal Opportunities Committee took evidence from Karen Carlton, who is the Commissioner for Public Appointments in Scotland. The committee considered her evidence to be "forthright, well-reasoned and succinct" and said that the proposed strategy is
"an excellent basis for enhancing equal opportunities in Scotland's ministerial public appointments process."
The committee therefore decided that I should write to the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee and pass on all the evidence that we had heard so that it could be considered as part of that committee's report to the Parliament on the commissioner's consultation.
In my letter I expressed the committee's one concern, which was about the proposal that the convener or another member of the Equal Opportunities Committee should participate in an implementation group. The committee deemed that inappropriate, as a conflict of interest could arise if the committee scrutinises the OCPAS's strategy in the future.
I have insufficient time to go into the committee's evidence session in detail, but the following will give a flavour of the issues that it was keen to highlight. It noted that, as the appointments process usually involves a three-year term of appointment and it is the norm for an incumbent to be reappointed if they meet requirements, fewer appointments are made each year than might be expected.
Further questioning revealed that 75 bodies and 728 appointments fall within the commissioner's remit and that the boards of public bodies spend £11 billion of public funds.
From April 2006 to March 2007, 121 appointments were made. In the same period, there were 76 reappointments. Reviewing the process, the commissioner pointed out that the Government appears to believe that reappointment is based on performance to date. She has been at pains to point out to and to persuade the Government that although performance to date is important, it is not the only criterion. Hence, she firmly believes that, on each occasion, there should be a review of what the minister expects the body to deliver and of the person specification.
The committee also noted that there is a perception among many people that public appointments are not for them and that there is a general distrust of the appointments process. That led the commissioner to ask whether we really mean what we say about encouraging diversity in applications. Furthermore, even if the distrust is overcome, the lack of confidence prevails.
The commissioner was in no doubt that only persistence will deliver the necessary changes in attitude and that if we give up people will merely believe that it was all about political correctness. She also stated that she has an aspirational target for applications from, for example, disabled people, who are quite hard to reach. She also said that research made it clear that women are less confident than men and less likely to apply, even if they are overqualified.
The Equal Opportunities Committee agrees that the public appointments process should be accessible to everyone and hopes that the public will have greater trust in the system that is proposed in the strategy. I hope that today's debate will encourage people from whatever background to apply.
The Liberal Democrats are fully supportive of the draft strategy.
As, like Marlyn Glen, I am a member of the Equal Opportunities Committee and of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee, I listened carefully to the commissioner, Karen Carlton, and was appreciative of her knowledge and understanding of the area. One thing that struck me during our evidence taking was that although she had spoken to the Government's central appointments team about implementing the draft proposal, she had not at that stage had any conversations with any elected member of the Government. I hope that, in his closing speech, the cabinet secretary will reassure me that those conversations have taken place.
It is a fact that Scotland is a diverse community. That should be reflected as much as possible in all our institutions. It is incumbent on the public institutions that are under Karen Carlton's supervision that they comply with diversity requirements. Any education or information that we can provide to facilitate that is to be welcomed.
Like other speakers before me, I endorse the draft strategy.
I welcome the findings of Commissioner Karen Carlton's report, "Diversity Delivers". It explains our challenges but it also provides us with a number of ideas and opportunities.
I will raise a point that the commissioner makes on page 21 of the report, to highlight the fact that there are many types of diversity. She says:
"People's background, education, location, upbringing and other life experience are all non-visible factors that contribute to our diversity."
That means that diversity is indeed diverse and that we must look past the most obvious characteristics such as gender or race. The challenge before us is to promote not limited diversity, but equal opportunities for all in recognition of the promise that the Scotland Act 1998 made. We are challenged not to stack the deck against any one group, but to ensure that every group has a chance at succeeding and representing its entire community. The point is, of course, to bring the full spectrum of ideas and backgrounds to the table for the benefit of all.
Parliament is challenged to fix the obvious inequalities. There is a vast amount of work left to do before the boards of our public bodies reflect the society around them.
Using the usual parameters, which are the only measure available to us, we see, as Marlyn Glen said, that just 35 per cent of board members and 17 per cent of conveners are women, even though women comprise 52 per cent of the overall population. Even more startling is the fact that disabled persons and those with long-term illnesses are represented by just 2.5 per cent of members and conveners of public bodies, despite their accounting for 20 per cent of Scotland's population. Indeed, only ethnic minorities are represented at a rate similar to the proportion of the population for which they account. However, that is the overall figure; it is not shown city by city or region by region.
There are no figures to tell us how diverse the appointments to our public bodies are in respect of background, education, location, upbringing and other life experience, to which the report refers. How many non-graduates, working class people or Gaelic or Scots speakers get appointed? We know that all Scotland's citizens, of every race, gender and background, have much to give our great nation. I believe that, so far, we have seen only a glimpse of their gifts and a small part of their potential. The enormous talent, wisdom and sense of purpose shown by our public bodies can only grow stronger and more representative through the efforts of this Parliament and initiatives such as those that are suggested in the report.
We face challenges with our public appointments, but the recommendations in the report are the right response: recognise our shortcomings, make plans to ensure improvement and promote the principles of the Scotland Act 1998 through the actions of this Parliament. I welcome the report's recommendations, value its findings and support the motion.
I am a member of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee and I am pleased to speak in the debate.
I agree that something needs to be done to ensure that appointments to the boards of Scotland's public bodies reflect the increasing diversity of the Scottish public. Current research shows that diversity can improve the performance of our boards by better facilitating communication and understanding between boards and their users.
The consultation document, which was prepared by the Commissioner for Public Appointments in Scotland, Karen Carlton, is excellent. Its most important facet is that it upholds the principle that merit should remain the most important criterion when new members are appointed. Instead of seeking the achievement of specific targets for increasing minority representation, it calls for a different kind of aspirational target by encouraging a greater diversity of people to apply. That is extremely important, because it would be a mistake to implement an affirmative action programme that could result in the appointment of candidates who are not best qualified to do the job. I have faith that if we succeed in attracting a qualified and diverse group of applicants, the problem will solve itself by providing ministers with an applicant pool that is diverse and not lacking in quality.
By suggesting that current board members should undertake equality training, the draft strategy goes beyond simply calling for something that will result in a more diverse pool of applicants. Although that seems reasonable, it is vague about what equality training entails. Will it have a significant impact on Scotland's boards and their members' skills, or is it just another level of red tape—I hope that it is not.
I am concerned that the infusion of new people with fresh ideas has not been addressed. A diversity of opinions and beliefs is important, and the fact that many of the same suspects serve on many boards can be counterproductive to the ultimate goal of achieving diversity. We must work to ensure that boards are not over-monopolised by particular individuals or familiar faces wearing different hats.
I also take issue with the application process, which can drag on for many months because of its overly complex and bureaucratic nature. As a result, many qualified candidates might be put off out of sheer frustration, which hampers the aim of achieving greater diversity on boards.
I believe that the draft strategy's aims are honourable and well intentioned, but they are also ambitious. If its recommendations are implemented, the Government will have to be patient and give them time to take effect. I have confidence in the committee and the policies that we are debating and I support our convener's motion.
I call John Swinney. Minister, time is on your side.
I always enjoy the opportunity to entertain Parliament in the last remaining stages of its day. I will try my best to do so today.
The Government welcomes the Standards and Public Appointments Committee's report. It is a positive response to the draft strategy and clearly supports and promotes the diversity agenda in public appointments. Diversity runs through the heart of what the Government aims to achieve through the public appointments system and, in a much broader way, through the heart of the Government's aspirations, as the diversity agenda runs through all our policy interventions and approaches.
The approach that the commissioner has taken in the draft strategy and the response from the Standards and Public Appointments Committee are welcome contributions to the process. The Government's response, which will be issued tomorrow, is also generally supportive of the commissioner's recommendations.
I will not talk about the Government's response. Instead, I will restrict my remarks to the Standards and Public Appointments Committee's report, which is extremely helpful. The Government recognises that it flags up some early achievements that can be made if we implement some of the recommendations in the committee report and the strategy that can be done with relative ease and at minimal cost. For example, the development of a hub website, which Mr Brown, the committee's convener, referred to, can be done more rapidly than has been envisioned by the committee. My officials are already working to take that forward. We will keep Parliament advised of the steps that are taken in that respect.
I recognise the need, which is highlighted in the committee's report, to ensure that all groups have equality of access to information and opportunities. That must be central to any communication plan on the promotion of the agenda on achieving diversity in public appointments.
The Government recognises that an early achievement can be made in the shape of the hub website, but we must also be mindful of the fact that all individuals and all groups have the opportunity, in all scenarios, to gain access to information about public appointments. The Government wants to be able to satisfy the aspirations of the report. To do that, we must have a broad range of applications to undertake public appointments, so that we have the appropriate range of applicants to consider.
I agree with the committee that robust monitoring needs to be introduced to determine the effectiveness of all of the communication channels we use. The Government's wider marketing activities can obviously help in relation to such questions.
The committee report notes the breadth of recommendations in the draft strategy. There is a lot to be achieved, but that must be measured against the resources that are available. I therefore welcome the committee's recommendations on the setting of targets that are pragmatic and realistic with regard to the resources that will be available.
Management of the appointments process lies with the Scottish Government. I note that the committee supports the recommendations in the draft strategy about the creation of a centre of expertise. I can report that responsibility for the public appointments process has now moved into the Scottish Government's professional human resources area, to take advantage of the synergies between the recruitment of personnel to work in the Government and the public appointment process. We have adopted a cohesive approach to the identification of appropriate individuals to satisfy the appointments process. The Government will endeavour to ensure that that is taken forward efficiently and effectively.
The committee report welcomes the establishment of an implementation group. The Government also supports that approach. We recognise that the committee has given a great deal of thought to the approach to be taken, particularly in relation to the selection of the membership of that group. The Government accepts the approach that the committee has suggested and the point that Margaret Mitchell made about the role of the Equal Opportunities Committee.
It is appropriate that a representative of the Scottish ministers is involved in the implementation group. We will of course discuss that further through the appropriate channels to ensure that it happens.
The Government agrees with the committee that the draft strategy offers an important opportunity to improve the quality, diversity and quantity of applications. On behalf of the Government, I take this opportunity to send out a message to wider Scotland of the Government's great willingness and enthusiasm to ensure that we broaden the quality, diversity and quantity of applications in the public appointments process.
A great deal more work will need to be done on the detail and the implementation plans, but from today's debate and the exchange of ideas and propositions from the committee and the commissioner, it is clear that we have taken a significant step in taking the recommendations forward. I look forward to seeing the commissioner's final report when it is published in September.
I assure Margaret Mitchell that the Government looks carefully at the performance of agencies, particularly in terms of the role that board members play, to ensure that they fulfil at all times the objectives that the Government has set them. That is one of the central approaches that the Government takes in this policy area.
Far too many conversations are going on around the chamber. I call Cathie Craigie to wind up on behalf of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee.
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for talking slowly. At one point I thought that I might have to stand up and read the committee report in its entirety.
I thank all the members who have taken part in the debate, the clerks to the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee and to the Equal Opportunities Committee, and all committee members who worked with the commissioner to reach this significant point at which to ensure diversity on the boards of Scotland's public bodies.
We know of people's willingness to contribute by becoming involved in improving the lives of the people of Scotland by way of their participation in the running of public bodies. Board members play an important role and we must ensure that they are better able to meet the needs of the communities they serve.
It is all the more important today that boards reflect the communities they serve. Unfortunately, that has not happened thus far: women, minority ethnic and disabled people continue to be under-represented. Marlyn Glen, Hugh O'Donnell, and Dave Thompson mentioned that. Jamie McGrigor referred to differences of opinion on how we get to where we want to be, but he agreed that we want more equal representation on our boards. There was general agreement about the need to encourage more applications from women, people from minority ethnic organisations and people with disabilities.
The draft equalities strategy represents the first step forward in tackling the issues in a systematic way. It proposes action on all areas of the public appointments process, as Keith Brown outlined in his speech. It is also important that the strategy proposes detailed monitoring, which will ensure that the effectiveness of each action point is measured. That will, in turn, produce the robust evidence that will enable the various recommended actions to be improved and built upon.
Although the committee recommended some changes to the draft strategy, committee members are content that it is the right way forward. The strategy should help to ensure that all those who wish to contribute to our public bodies are given every opportunity to do so. I welcome the cabinet secretary's contribution to the debate and look forward to publication of the Government's response tomorrow. I am sure that the members of both committees that were involved in producing the report will read it. I hope that we can all work together with the Government to make the recommended improvements a reality.
I urge members to support the motion.