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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 05 Feb 2009

Meeting date: Thursday, February 5, 2009


Contents


Investment in Schools (North Highland)

The final item of business is a members' business debate on motion S3M-3284, in the name of Jamie Stone, on investment in schools in north Highland. The debate will be concluded without any question being put.

Motion debated,

That the Parliament recognises the impact of the quality of a school's environment on the effectiveness of the education of its pupils and believes that the dilapidated state of a number of school buildings in the north Highlands impedes the education of many pupils; recognises Highland Council's lack of financial resources to renovate and build schools, and regrets the lack of a funding mechanism that would allow Highland Council to initiate a much-needed schools refurbishment and new-build programme.

Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):

I thank all the members who have supported the motion, which raises a big issue for people who live in the north of my constituency.

One evening a year ago, a Wick high school pupil came to see me at my clinic in John o' Groats. She raised with me a simple matter that was important to her. She said that the windows of her classroom let in the freezing cold air and asked whether I could do anything to have the problem sorted. I contacted the school and was dismayed when the rector told me that the problem was far worse and that the school's physical state was much worse than most people realised. He told me up front that he did not see why the true facts should not be made public.

As members know from the media and from my comments in the chamber, the school's state has become evermore brightly lit by the glare of publicity. Wick high school parent council produced a report that detailed the school's shocking state, which was copied to the First Minister, among others. A postcard campaign to the First Minister has also been undertaken.

As I said at the start of my speech, the debate is about a big issue for ordinary people. Members will remember the campaign to safeguard consultant-led maternity services in Caithness. As in that case, people really care about the issue.

The physical state of Wick high school is unacceptable in this day and age. Its staff and pupils work hard and do their best despite the very poor state of the school buildings. That endeavour should be recognised and applauded, but the fact remains that if even only one pupil failed to realise his or her maximum educational potential because of the school's physical state, that would be a disgrace.

Whatever the history of physical neglect of the school turns out to be—and that should be investigated, if only to prevent any repetition—the reality is that, in 2009, Highland Council simply does not have the financial resources to give Wick and east Caithness the modern fit-for-purpose secondary school that the people who live there deserve. That is why, ever since my young constituent helped us to uncover Wick high school's true condition a year ago, I and others—I give credit where it is due—have sought repeatedly to raise the issue at ministerial and national levels. Ministers from the First Minister downwards are all aware of the issue. Although no financial assistance has yet been offered, I am grateful that ministers are now at least aware of the problem.

A possible solution may be in sight. The United Kingdom Government's recent announcement that it is bringing forward £100 million of infrastructure expenditure in Scotland presents a golden opportunity. That is why I have written to Highland Council to ask whether Wick high school will form part of the council's bid for a share of that £100 million. I hope that the Scottish Government acknowledges that that could be a way forward and will encourage the council to make that bid.

The second possible way forward is presented by the budget that was agreed between my party and the Scottish Government this week. The emphasis on addressing the problem of crumbling schools is welcome. In addition, while we wait to see what the projected Scottish Futures Trust delivers—or does not deliver—the new work on borrowing consent for Scotland will be most welcome.

In the absence of an off-balance-sheet mechanism such as public-private partnerships, which delivered a splendid new Dingwall academy that has not gone unnoticed by my Caithness constituents, Government borrowing consents are centre stage. I hope that the Scottish Government will be mindful of schools in my constituency as additional borrowing is evaluated and worked up. It is worth pointing out that investment in schools infrastructure in an area such as Caithness has a beneficial effect on the local economy through its support for contractors and building workers.

Alas, Wick high school is not the only school in my constituency that needs investment, although I have made great play of it in particular. Thurso high school—in particular, the Clasper building to the rear of the school—has been a source of problems over the years. I must also mention Farr high school and its rector, Jim Johnston. Farr high school has been on and off PPP lists and council capital programmes but, after eight years, we do not seem to be where we would like to be in making it fit for purpose. Although its condition is not as extreme as that of Wick high school, the fact remains that when pupils at Farr high school and the adjacent primary school go from one class to the other, they have to leave the buildings—a gaggle of buildings, as it has been described to me—and go out into the wind and the storms to go to the next class. That is not acceptable in this day and age.

I say those things about Thurso high school and Farr high school to put them, as well as Wick high school, on the record. I will return to the condition of those two other schools when I get the opportunity again. I and my constituents seek a recognition from the Scottish Government that we have a problem with Wick high school in particular but that there are opportunities to address the problem through the £100 million infrastructure funding that is coming from Westminster and through exploring the possibility of borrowing powers for the Scottish Government. I seek confirmation that the minister will consider those mechanisms and keep Wick high school and the other schools in my constituency at the top of her agenda for much-needed investment.

I and my constituents believe that children have the same rights to education whether they live in Wick, Inverness or the central belt of Scotland. I repeat the remark that if even one pupil failed to realise their full educational potential because of the state of their school, it would be damnable.

I thank members for listening to my speech. I await other members' speeches and the minister's reply.

Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):

I welcome the debate that Jamie Stone has secured and put on record my support for equitable funding of school improvements throughout the country.

It is important to acknowledge the history of the problems that Highland Council has faced over decades. Indeed, I understand that the evaluation that ministers in the previous Executive and the current Government made of the most likely candidates for school improvement funds showed that some 50 primary schools in the Highland Council area have toilets that are not fit for purpose.

I also understand that the issue with Thurso high school that Jamie Stone has raised has been going on for many years. Indeed, people who were pupils of Wick high school 15 or 16 years ago tell me that there were buckets on the floor and broken roof tiles then. Some of them said that when they were concentrated on learning it was not too much of a problem for them, but in the long period since then there has been a decline in the condition of the dilapidated fabric, which must be investigated as Jamie Stone suggested.

I ask the minister to find out, if possible, why the fabric of Wick high school has deteriorated to its current state, which has forced concerned parents to go to the local MSP with their campaign for improvement. I understand their concerns for the current generation of pupils, but we must ask whether, given the circumstances of this devolved Administration, there is enough money to do all the required jobs. I hope that the national classification system will put Wick high school towards the top of the tree for being dealt with.

The lack of financial resources is only one aspect of the issue. I understand that how repairs have been done in the school and the piecemeal spending of money have been less than helpful. Indeed, as Jamie Stone will know, the swimming pool in Wick high school has been made unusable because of the methods contractors used to clean the grouting and so on. Unbelievably, they left sharp edges that meant that children could not use the pool thereafter. At least there is a large swimming pool in Wick that Wick high school pupils and the public can use, so the situation is not as desperate as that in Thurso, where there is no swimming pool.

I ask that we try to get this matter into perspective and look to the minister to tell us how we can go ahead. We must learn from what has happened and consider more local choices for borrowing requirements, as I did in my speech in the chamber this morning. The potential for prudential borrowing has led, at least in the case of certain local authorities, to emergency work being done on schools. I would like to know whether something of that sort can be contemplated in this case, if necessary. I hope that we will see the sort of progress that we all want, and acknowledge Wick high school's priorities. Having welcomed the debate, I would welcome the minister's reply.

Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):

I, too, congratulate Jamie Stone on securing this very important debate. Like him, I am appalled at the state of Wick high school. With my colleagues Peter Peacock and David Stewart, I visited the school not so long ago and found the facilities to be awful. It was a lovely, dry, sunny day when we visited, but we could not move about during lunch time because of the number of children who were eating their lunches in the dining room, the corridors and anywhere else they could find a space, and as many young people were eating their lunch outside as inside. Had it been raining, which it is known to do in Wick and Caithness, I do not know how the school would have coped.

The classroom facilities were poor and the sports facilities were falling apart. As Rob Gibson said, the swimming pool is closed, which has implications not only for pupils but for the wider community. There is a public swimming pool in Wick, but the one in the school was used by many community groups, including those with vulnerable adults who perhaps do not feel confident about using the public pool. The fact that it can no longer be used is a concern that has been raised with me. Pupils and teachers lose out because the school is in poor condition, but so do the wider community.

There were press reports at the weekend that three Highland schools have been given D grades, which means that they are considered to be beyond repair, but there are no plans to replace them. We urgently need to consider schools such as Caol primary school, which has the renowned room 13 project that is nationally recognised and commended. How much more could the children involved have achieved if they had been in a building that was fit for purpose? Lochaber high school in Fort William is another—I could go on because there are many in Highland and, indeed, throughout Scotland. That is why the Labour Party pledged in its manifesto for the most recent election that we would rebuild every school that needed to be rebuilt.

During the previous Administration, the Labour Party started a huge school building process and we were determined to finish it. We hoped that the SNP Government would continue that process and match us brick for brick, but it has not done that yet. I urge it to do so. As we have heard, Highland Council does not have the funding for such rebuilding, so the Government needs to intervene and help the children of Wick high school. Letting down any child at such an important stage of their life is letting down one child too many.

Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):

I thank Jamie Stone for the opportunity to debate the subject of schools in the north Highlands. Many years ago, some teachers from Wick high school came to a surgery to tell me of the situation there. As Jamie said, the problem is not a new one.

As a Highlands MSP, I cannot confirm or deny that Wick high school is the school in Scotland that is in greatest need of repair. However, following my visit to the school last year with Rob Gibson and some parents, I can confirm that it is in much need of significant repair. Following the visit, I wrote to Highland Council to record my shock at the state of the building. In my letter, I listed the following: the presence of asbestos; highly visible cracks in the walls; many areas of dampness that show up in blistering on walls, which is a well-known hazard for anyone with asthma; warped and rotten windows; the poor state of decorative repair and visible leaks throughout the building; the poor state of the swimming pool, which is now closed on health and safety grounds; and on-going problems with heating and burst pipes. I also pointed out that the school has no social areas where pupils can sit. Other members mentioned that. The issues that I listed are by no means the whole list.

Highland Council's response was to say that a new synthetic turf pitch had been established and that improvements had been made to the school entrance. The council also confirmed that the swimming pool would remain closed unless a low-cost solution could be identified. Some time ago, Highland Council allocated £1 million for additional toilets and increased dining room and social space at the school. No more funding has been identified in its four-year capital programme, although classrooms for home economics may be considered as part of the 2012-13 programme.

I received a letter from a former Wick high school pupil, who said:

"Spending 4-6 years in the rotten, unhygienic slum that is Wick High won't inspire young minds nor motivate teachers who are working under such intolerable conditions."

As we have heard, the Highland users group for mental health patients can no longer utilise the swimming pool at Wick high school, which they used because of the privacy that it offered. Its members have therefore lost a particularly good form of exercise for body and mind. Swimming helps people with mental health problems to cope with their conditions.

In writing about the Dounreay site closure, the Dounreay stakeholder group said that the social infrastructure needs to be improved if new business are to be attracted to the area. It went on to say that families who may be attracted to live in the area would want to ensure that an excellent education system is in place. The stakeholder group is supporting the call that members of all parties are making in the chamber tonight. Of course, the issue of retaining maternity services in the Highland area has also been raised.

The motion

"regrets the lack of a funding mechanism".

As Jamie Stone said, the Liberal-Independent coalition on Highland Council will be pleased to have heard Jeremy Purvis say this week that the new funding mechanism would act as

"a green light for Edinburgh and others to bring forward proposals."

In fact, the Lib Dem education convener on the City of Edinburgh Council hailed yesterday's budget as a "lifeline" for the refurbishment and replacement of schools in the capital. If it is good enough for Edinburgh, it is good enough for Wick.

Peter Peacock (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):

For the second time today, I find myself reflecting on my time at Highland Council. I served on the council, as Jamie Stone did, and then as a Scottish Executive minister with responsibility for education and finance. Over that time—25 years—I have had many interactions with the school building programme. In the process of reflecting on those times, I hope to answer some of Rob Gibson's questions on why schools in the Highlands got into the condition they are in.

As I said in this morning's debate on borrowing powers for the Scottish Parliament, when I was a councillor our borrowing consents were extremely strictly controlled. I watched, as did Jamie Stone and others on the council, the condition of our school stock decline faster than we could improve the schools. We knew that it was happening, which is why we pleaded with the Government of the day—to no avail—for an increase in investment in schools that would have allowed us to undertake projects such as Wick high school, Farr high school and Thurso high school, which are still waiting in the queue.

We did not make the progress that we wanted to make, which left schools in a dreadful and declining condition. A decade ago, Wick high school was by no means the worst, which demonstrates how bad the others were. The visit that I and others paid to Wick last year illustrated that the physical condition of the school is appallingly poor. It is among the worst that I have visited, although Farr high school is not far behind. That is a dreadful legacy.

When I was Deputy Minister for Children and Education in the first session of the Parliament and, subsequently, Minister for Education and Young People, as well as when I was a finance minister, I had both the motivation and the opportunity to do something about the situation, because of my experience of watching the decline of the school estate in the Highlands. I am proud of the fact that we created more than £5 billion-worth of investment in the period of our Administration. Hundreds of schools were improved. There are spanking new schools of the highest quality in Dingwall and Portree, and the primary schools in the Black Isle are of a similar standard. The tragedy is that there are still schools of the condition of Wick, Farr and Thurso, to which Jamie Stone referred. We can see the contrast between what was possible when we had a funding mechanism and what is not possible now, when we are struggling to find one.

Today, I calculated that in the past decade Highland Council had close to £200 million to spend on its school estate, compared with about £24 million in the equivalent period before that. We have made progress. We also provided more grant, rather than borrowing. The prudential powers to which Jamie Stone and others have referred were designed to give councils more flexibility. However, the funding that we provided was never going to be enough to overcome the legacy of decline, which is why the building programme needed to continue.

As the motion suggests, it is tragic to see the policy failure that the Scottish Futures Trust has been to date. I sincerely hope that the trust will move forward, although I am sceptical about its ability to do so. It is interesting to note that, if it is to move forward, it will do so on a PPP basis. I am sorry that it has taken the Government so long to recognise that the Scottish Futures Trust is public-private partnership and to swallow that pill.

I do not care whether the trust uses the non-profit-distributing model—we approved the first such project. The non-profit-distributing model is PPP and is no cheaper than other forms of PPP. The important point is that we should make progress on the physical fabric of our schools, to provide the physical improvement that Wick and the other communities in the Highlands so desperately need. I encourage the minister and her colleagues to redouble their efforts to bring that about.

The Minister for Schools and Skills (Maureen Watt):

I, too, welcome this debate, which provides me with the opportunity to highlight the Government's commitment to improvement of the school estate. We have made significant progress in improving school infrastructure and are well on track to lifting more than 100,000 pupils out of poor-quality school buildings and classrooms by 2011. In the course of 2008 alone, 71 major school building projects were completed, which benefited more than 30,000 children who moved into new, state-of-the-art classrooms that are fit for delivering the curriculum for excellence.

Government is supporting £2 billion-worth of construction in schools. Since May 2007, 150 school projects have been completed under this Administration, which is benefiting more than 50,000 pupils and placing us well on track to meet our target of 250 school projects, serving 100,000 pupils. In addition, three NPD projects are currently in the pipeline. In total, the SNP Government is directly supporting investment with a capital value of around £1 billion.

Under the terms of the concordat that we have signed with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, we have increased substantially the capital resources that are available to authorities. Many authorities are making schools an investment priority. The infrastructure investment plan shows a further £1 billion being invested in schools over the next five years, and that is just in large-scale projects.

In the wake of the pre-budget report, the Government has offered to allow authorities to accelerate £100 million of capital expenditure from 2010-11 in order to bolster economic recovery and support families and businesses. COSLA is working with authorities to identify how best that £100 million can be targeted. We are confident that schools and communities across the country will benefit from planned expenditure taking place earlier than would otherwise have been the case.

Looking to the future, we have established a joint school estate strategy working group with COSLA in response to the Audit Scotland report "Improving the school estate". Discussions regarding future policy, funding and delivery are on-going, with the intention to publish a new school estate strategy by spring 2009.

The Scottish Futures Trust is a member of the joint Scottish Government-COSLA school estate strategy working group and is also engaging with individual authorities to discuss how best it can support delivery of the Government's and authorities' aspiration to improve the school estate. The SFT will continue to work with the group and with authorities to assist in identifying appropriate delivery and funding solutions.

Mary Scanlon:

I appreciate those comments. No one could not welcome an increase of millions of pounds for refurbishment and rebuilding, but what I saw when I went round Wick high school was, basically, lack of care and maintenance, which is what I would like the minister to be kind enough to address today. I see no point in our wasting taxpayers' money by spending millions on schools if we are not even prepared to invest some decent money in care, maintenance and good estate management.

Maureen Watt:

I cannot agree more with Mary Scanlon. If we build new schools but they are not maintained, they will quickly fall down the categories again. Local authorities must build care and maintenance into their budgets in order to keep the schools that we are building in decent condition. Otherwise, we will still be paying for them after they have fallen down—we are paying for some schools over 30 years.

As I said, the Scottish Futures Trust is a member of the school estate working group, and it is working with it to improve the strategy.

As I have outlined, we are continuing to make substantial investment in capital programmes across Scotland and, as members will be aware, we will be announcing later this year the next part of the schools investment programme.

Rhoda Grant and Peter Peacock—who was a deputy finance minister and Minister for Education and Young People—know that PPP has to be paid for over decades. The work will come in on budget, and other mechanisms have to be found.

Turning specifically to Highland, I appreciate that there is local concern about the condition of schools in Jamie Stone's constituency. As he and other members rightly identified, it has been an issue for some time. I need to make it quite clear, however, that it is a matter for Highland Council, which is responsible for the provision and maintenance of school buildings in its area. It decides the priority that is to be accorded to work on particular schools.

Would the minister agree at least to come and see the condition of Wick high school for herself?

Maureen Watt:

Jamie Stone and other members have made perfectly clear the condition of that school, and I take their word for it. As I said, it is a matter for the council. Have all Highland councillors been to visit the school? Perhaps if those from other parts of the council area had gone to visit it, it might be higher up their list of priorities.

Given the council's responsibility, ministers have to stand back from involvement in discussions on the merits of various options for work on individual school buildings, and cannot intervene in council business to influence which schools might be identified as priorities for replacement or refurbishment.

We have substantially increased the capital allocation for local authorities across Scotland, with Highland receiving £86.1 million over this year and next year for investment in infrastructure. That can of course be used for prudential borrowing, or it can be used for capital investment, including investment on schools, according to priorities.

In its previous school investment programme, the council apparently had higher priorities than the replacement of Wick high school. That was evidently the case in 2005, when the council decided on the contents of its nearly £200 million PPP schools project, in which replacement of Wick high school did not feature.

Education ministers welcomed the statement that was made back in September by Highland Council leader, Councillor Michael Foxley, who said that he wants to set out an ambitious programme of capital investment in schools for the next 10 years. In the next four years, the council plans to invest £88 million in the region's schools. That will provide five new primary schools and significant improvements to a number of other schools, including £1 million-worth of investment at Wick high school. Of course, the extent to which investment in Wick high school might feature in that more ambitious future programme will be a decision for the council to take and to account for.

I hope that Mr Stone and other Highlands and Islands members will use their influence to ensure that Highland Council is in a state of readiness with school projects to benefit from the accelerated capital and future SFT funding.

Meeting closed at 17:36.