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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 04 Sep 2008

Meeting date: Thursday, September 4, 2008


Contents


First Minister's Question Time

First Minister's questions will be taken today by the Deputy First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon.


Engagements

I have to ask the question that is in the Business Bulletin, but I am sure that the Deputy First Minister will be capable of answering it.

To ask the First Minister what engagements he has planned for the rest of the day. (S3F-953)

The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Nicola Sturgeon):

As colleagues may be aware, the First Minister is attending a private funeral today. Later today, I and my fellow ministers will have meetings to take forward the Government's programme for Scotland.

Colleagues may also be interested to know that the First Minister will host a reception tomorrow night in Edinburgh castle for all Scotland's Olympians. On that note, I know that the chamber will want to send its very best wishes to our Paralympians for the start of the Paralympics on Saturday.

Cathy Jamieson:

I am sure that the whole Parliament sends its best wishes to all those who are involved.

Alex Salmond's tax plans have been roundly rejected by nearly every organisation that responded to the consultation on them. As he is ignoring the result, why did he bother consulting?

Nicola Sturgeon:

In case Cathy Jamieson has forgotten, I remind her that surveys of public opinion show that 88 per cent of the Scottish public want to see the back of the unfair council tax and its replacement with a fair tax that is based on ability to pay. The debate in Scotland is simple: it is between those who continue to defend a council tax that is deeply unfair and deeply regressive and which hits the poorest hardest, and those of us who are proud to propose an alternative that is fair, progressive and based on ability to pay. The local income tax would lift 85,000 people in Scotland out of poverty, including 15,000 children. It beggars belief that the party that alleges to be the party of social justice would oppose such a plan and, instead, defend the unfair council tax.

Cathy Jamieson:

Surely, if consultation meant anything at all, the Scottish National Party would dump the local income tax proposals. I remind the Parliament who Alex Salmond has decided to ignore: the Scottish Trades Union Congress, the Confederation of British Industry, the Institute of Directors, Unison, the Federation of Small Businesses, the National Union of Students and the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland—the list goes on. The tax plan has been rubbished by an array of respected organisations that have Scotland's best interests at heart. Surely they cannot all be wrong. Why does Alex Salmond not admit that he has it wrong and dump the plan now?

Nicola Sturgeon:

We will continue to discuss our plans with all those organisations and more as we progress the bill, but I remind Cathy Jamieson that there was a pretty big consultation in Scotland last May. It was called the Scottish election. In that election, the Scottish people voted for the SNP and our plans to get rid of the council tax and replace it with a fair system. [Interruption.]

Order.

The party that presided over 60 per cent increases in the council tax was roundly booted out of office. That is the kind of consultation that I like.

Cathy Jamieson:

Many people who voted in that election thought that they would get lower class sizes and £2,000 house-buyer grants and that student debt would be abolished. Of course, none of that has come to pass.

The SNP's local income tax would simultaneously make Scotland the highest-taxed part of the United Kingdom, damage the economy and force councils to slash services. We know that Alex Salmond is a devotee of Margaret Thatcher's economic policies, but now we see that he is also a devotee of her tax tactics. She introduced the Abolition of Domestic Rates etc (Scotland) Bill, paving the way for the poll tax—a damaging and divisive personal tax that caused chaos in Scotland. It is some irony that the SNP is now introducing an abolition of council tax bill and paving the way for another damaging personal tax that, just like the poll tax, will make hard-working families pay more while the wealthiest pay less.

It is difficult to imagine anything worse until we involve the Liberal Democrats. They want 32 different tax rates: one for each council. Will Nicola Sturgeon give an absolute guarantee that that will not happen now or in future?

Cathy Jamieson mentioned Margaret Thatcher. I will say something about her.

Members:

Hail, Margaret!

That will do, thank you. Order.

Nicola Sturgeon:

Margaret Thatcher saw the need for change. I admire her. She is a conviction politician. I am a conviction politician, just like her. That is what Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, said on 5 September just last year.

There is a question for Cathy Jamieson and her Labour Party colleagues. Labour has defended the unfair council tax for eight long years in the Parliament. It has presided over 60 per cent increases in the council tax. Of course, over the summer, we heard all three candidates for the Labour leadership say that the council tax is wrong, unfair and past its sell-by date. Unfortunately, not one of those leadership candidates has any alternative to the council tax. The SNP Government has an alternative—the local income tax, which is fair, progressive and based on the ability to pay. I challenge anyone who believes in social justice to vote for the proposal.

Cathy Jamieson:

I notice that the Deputy First Minister was not able to answer my straightforward question. If she cannot answer that one, I have to ask her whether she is then leaving the door open for the SNP to do a back-room deal with the Liberal Democrats that could mean that a small business that employs three people—[Interruption.] This is a very serious point.

Order. I would like to hear the question, even if no one else would.

Cathy Jamieson:

Such a deal could mean that a small business employing three people would have to deal with the red tape of three different tax rates, and a larger corporation would have to deal with up to 33 different rates. Is Nicola Sturgeon's message to Scottish taxpayers that they should prepare for the highest tax rates in the UK, and is her message to Scottish businesses that they should pack up and go elsewhere?

Nicola Sturgeon:

I point out to Cathy Jamieson that, until John Swinney was able to freeze them, the people of Scotland were paying sky-high council tax rates because of the increases brought in by the previous Labour Government.

The SNP Government looks forward to having constructive discussions with our friends in the Liberal Democrats under the new broom of Tavish Scott—I hope that I do not have to change that assessment of him in a few minutes. The SNP believes in building consensus in the interests of the Scottish people.

Let there be no doubt that there is a clear divide in Parliament between the Labour Party, which wants to continue the unfair council tax, and members on these benches, who believe in social justice and in lifting people out of poverty and who want a fair and progressive tax that is based on the ability to pay.


Prime Minister (Meetings)

2. Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con):

I do not know what I am reeling from more: the prospect of Nicola Sturgeon as First Minister, or of her having constructive discussions with the Liberal Democrats.

To ask the Deputy First Minister when the First Minister will next meet the Prime Minister. (S3F-954)

I assume that it will not be in Glenrothes.

The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Nicola Sturgeon):

We might have to wait and see about that, but I can safely say that the First Minister would be delighted to meet the Prime Minister in Glenrothes, if the Prime Minister can find the courage.

The First Minister has no plans to meet the Prime Minister in the near future.

Annabel Goldie:

Yesterday, the First Minister proclaimed with unabated bravado that he has found £281 million to subsidise his unfair, unworkable and totally discredited Scottish national income tax. By how much could we cut everyone's bills if that subsidy was used to cut council tax? Only when we have the answer to that question can Scotland have a true choice, a real debate and a proper comparison.

Nicola Sturgeon:

As we move hopefully forward to have constructive discussions with our friends in the Liberal Democrats, we will leave it to the unholy Labour-Tory alliance to defend the unfair council tax. The Government has already taken firm and decisive action to reduce and alleviate the burden of council tax, which is why we took the decision in partnership with our local authority friends to freeze the council tax.

The problem with the Tory plan for the council tax is that although it might involve a one-off cut, after that there is no guarantee about what will happen to a tax that remains deeply unfair. People will be very suspicious of that when they cast their minds back and remember that, under the last Conservative Government, council tax increased by 41 per cent. Granted, that is not as bad as the 62 per cent that the council tax increased by under Labour, but it is still pretty awful.

If it is all the same to Annabel Goldie, we will continue to progress our plans for a fair, progressive tax that is based on ability to pay. On this issue—happily, not on all issues—we will leave her to continue to shore up the discredited Labour Party.

Annabel Goldie:

It is disappointing that among such verbiage there was not an answer to the question that I asked. Most people understand that the problem with the council tax is the amount that they have to pay. That is the problem with many taxes—people are concerned less about structure and more about bills.

The SNP's totally spurious claim is that 80 per cent of Scots households would be no worse off under its plans but, under the plans of the Scottish Conservatives, 100 per cent of council tax payers would be better off; our older citizens would be very much better off.

Let us get real. The Green party will not support the Scottish national income tax. The Lib Dems have had three positions in 12 hours—no change there. Jeremy Purvis said no, Tavish Scott said maybe—perhaps that is definitive for him—and their MP Ed Davey is unconvinced. That is total flip-flop and fluster.

The SNP's proposal is brazen opportunism—it is a con. A local income tax is just not going to happen. Does the Deputy First Minister now accept that the £281 million that she says that she can find would be much better used to cut the council tax bills of every household in Scotland? In these hard-pressed times, we do not need a new tax on work; we need a tax cut for all.

Nicola Sturgeon:

I remind Annabel Goldie that the vast majority of people in Scotland would be better off under a local income tax than they are under the council tax. The replacement of the council tax with a local income tax would lift 85,000 people in Scotland out of poverty; 15,000 children would be lifted out of poverty. She will not find much favour in opposing that.

In the spirit of consensus, I agree with Annabel Goldie's stunning observation that the problem with all taxes is that people do not like how much they have to pay. That is indeed true. People do not like paying taxes, but they want to know that when they have to pay them, they are fair, progressive and based on ability to pay. That is the hallmark of the local income tax.

Annabel Goldie seems to be labouring under the same illusion that Labour has laboured under for far too long—that somehow it is possible to reform the council tax to make it fairer. It is not. Peter Burt said that expressly in his review of the council tax. I repeat that I know which side of the debate we are on: we want a fair tax that is based on ability to pay. The Conservatives are perfectly welcome to continue to support Labour in defending the indefensible. Frankly, that is a matter for Annabel Goldie.


Cabinet (Meetings)

To ask the Deputy First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Cabinet. (S3F-955)

I welcome Tavish Scott to his first First Minister's questions. The next meeting of the Cabinet will discuss issues of importance to the people of Scotland.

On Monday in Campbeltown, I met people who had real worries about the closure of the Vestas wind turbine factory. What is the Deputy First Minister's Government doing to keep the factory open and to save those jobs?

Nicola Sturgeon:

As Tavish Scott knows, the Government has given extensive support to the plant, which Jim Mather has visited. Constructive discussions are being, and will continue to be, held with the management, and Parliament will be kept updated as appropriate.

Tavish Scott:

The worldwide head of Vestas said from the start that he would not come to Scotland and would meet only in Denmark. If such a threat to 100 jobs had occurred under any previous Government, the SNP would have been first to demand that ministers took the lead and got over to Denmark to engage with the most senior people in the company. Given that the SNP is in government, why have ministers not done that?

Jim Mather told the Campbeltown Courier:

"For Kintyre to lose 100 private sector jobs would be the equivalent of the Royal Bank of Scotland closing in Edinburgh".

I agree, so why have ministers spent the summer travelling around Scotland promoting independence, when they should have been going round Europe protecting Scottish jobs? When will ministers get across to Denmark and make the high-level case face to face? There is a flight to Copenhagen from Edinburgh at 4.15 this afternoon. Will there be a minister on it?

I say to Tavish Scott that this is a serious matter—perhaps too serious for glib soundbites. [Interruption.]

Order.

Nicola Sturgeon:

The Government has given extensive support to the company, and we will continue to do so. Jim Mather is seeking discussions with the management and will continue to work extremely hard to seek a resolution. I am perfectly happy to give an undertaking to ensure that Tavish Scott and all other members of the Parliament will be kept updated on that as appropriate.

This Government has a proud record on renewables. Tavish Scott talked about ministers' activities over the summer, so I will talk about the approval of the Clyde wind farm, which is the single largest wind farm project in Scotland, a new biomass plant at Markinch in Fife, an extension to Crystal Rigg wind farm and the opening, earlier this week, of Scottish and Southern Energy's Glendoe scheme.

Tavish Scott has raised a serious issue, and it will be dealt with in a serious way by this Government.


Scottish Economy

To ask the First Minister what measures the Scottish Government is taking to bolster the Scottish economy in the current economic climate. (S3F-981)

The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Nicola Sturgeon):

The Government has taken early and decisive action to help the Scottish economy in difficult times. In the First Minister's Donald Dewar lecture on 19 August, he announced a package of initiatives to respond to the immediate challenges that are faced by the Scottish economy. That included: bringing forward up to £100 million of affordable housing investment to be spent this year and next, rather than in 2010-11, as originally planned; bringing forward up to £385 million of Scotland's remaining European structural funds allocation; introducing new steps to ensure that Scottish tourism reaps the full benefit of homecoming 2009; and looking at innovative ways of reducing public sector energy costs through bulk purchasing of electricity.

That package of measures builds on the support that this Government has already provided for Scotland's economy since last May, such as the council tax freeze, the reduction in business rates for 150,000 small enterprises in Scotland, the phased abolition of prescription charges and the abolition of the graduate endowment. All those policies are helping to put money back in people's pockets and get Scotland's economy moving.

Nigel Don:

I thank the Deputy First Minister for that extensive reply.

Yesterday, the chief economist at the Bank of Scotland, Martin Ellis, said:

"despite facing substantial economic headwinds, the Scottish economy is expected to expand through 2008 into early 2009".

Does the Deputy First Minister agree?

Nicola Sturgeon:

I substantially agree with that statement. However, I should say that there is absolutely no room for complacency. Scotland's economy is proving to be relatively resilient, but we know from our constituencies that people are feeling the pressure. Family budgets are under severe strain across the country, which is why the Government has taken so much action over the past months to try to relieve that pressure.

We should take heart from the fact that growth in Scotland has matched or surpassed that of the United Kingdom in each of the three past quarters. Our labour market continues to outperform that of the UK and retail sales continue to grow at a much faster rate in Scotland. Those are all encouraging signs, but there is no room for complacency.

I must say, finally, that the efforts to keep the Scottish economy out of recession and ensure that it remains resilient are not helped at all by the depressive, dire comments that were made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer at the weekend. I would have thought that his job was to help, not to hinder, as he seems intent on doing.

In your answer to Nigel Don, you referred—

I remind you—

Duncan McNeil:

I apologise, Presiding Officer.

The cabinet secretary referred to an announcement that was made by the First Minister about £100 million that was to be allocated to deal with some of the housing problems. Can she confirm that that £100 million will be available this year? Can she also confirm that every local authority in Scotland will benefit from that money?

Nicola Sturgeon:

Duncan McNeil asks that question as if he has stumbled across something that nobody knew. However, when the First Minister made that announcement last month, he was quite clear about the fact that we want to bring forward up to £100 million investment to this year and next year. We made it very clear in the press release and the accompanying document that £60 million of that had already been secured from the Scottish Government's own budgets and that we were in constructive discussions with local authorities about securing the other £40 million. As members have come to expect from the good relationship that this Government has with local government, those discussions are continuing and they are constructive, and I am confident that they will reach a positive conclusion. That is in marked contrast to the negative relationship that previous ministers used to have with local authorities—which was astounding, given that most of the councillors were in the same party as them.

Gavin Brown (Lothians) (Con):

One thing that the Scottish Government can do is have business impact assessments—a series of nine questions suggested by the regulatory review group—for all legislation. Given the current economic climate, how many of the 15 bills announced yesterday have undergone a business impact assessment?

Nicola Sturgeon:

That issue is under active consideration by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth, and I am sure that he will respond to the member about it in more detail.

There is little that is more important to this Government, in trying to protect and boost the Scottish economy, than helping business. That is why we have taken the action that we have taken with the small business bonus scheme to reduce or completely abolish business rates for 150,000 small businesses in Scotland. I was glad to have the support of the Conservative party on that policy.

Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):

In the past nine months, decisions taken by the Government within its own powers have nearly halved the operational budget of Scottish Enterprise, with 260 redundancies; abolished local enterprise companies, with no locally set budgets; and removed support for small businesses from our economic development agency. On 14 April, the chief executive of Scottish Enterprise told Parliament:

"we will no longer proactively support businesses that primarily service local markets."

How will that help the Scottish economy?

Nicola Sturgeon:

That is a complete and utter misrepresentation of what has happened. In the past few months under this Government, Scottish Enterprise has been allowed to focus much more on what most people would consider to be its core responsibility: supporting business in Scotland. That is what Scottish Enterprise is fundamentally there to do. Responsibility for training and skills now lies elsewhere, and the business gateway is being rolled out across Scotland.

There are some very positive things to say about the support that this Government is giving to business. We will continue to look at what more we can do to support business in the wider economy in what are challenging times. I conclude by saying simply that I wish that the UK Government would do likewise, given that it holds the vast majority of powers in the area.


Probationer Teachers

To ask the First Minister how the Scottish Executive plans to respond to reports that fewer than one in four of last year's probationer teachers have found permanent teaching jobs. (S3F-964)

The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Nicola Sturgeon):

The teacher employment survey that Rhona Brankin refers to was partial and already out of date when it was published. We would not expect every new teacher to be in permanent employment in August. Vacancies occur throughout the year. Indeed, we know that 6,000 teachers are expected to leave the profession this year and that retirements at such levels will continue for the foreseeable future. Since the date of the survey, more than 300 teacher vacancies have been advertised in Scotland. It is also important to be clear that we inherited a situation from the previous Administration in which more teachers were seeking employment than had been forecast. That is why we took early action last June to provide an additional £9 million for 300 teaching jobs. In November, in supporting the concordat, we made provision in the local government settlement to maintain teacher numbers at around 53,000.

Rhona Brankin:

There can be no greater indictment of the Scottish Government's education policy than teachers being on the dole while class sizes are rising. The Scottish National Party is responsible for bringing about the biggest crisis in education since Michael Forsyth was in charge—[Interruption.]

Order.

Will the Deputy First Minister take the opportunity to apologise to every new teacher in Scotland who has had their dreams dashed because they cannot get a job?

Nicola Sturgeon:

Let me point out that by the end of the year last year 93 per cent of teachers gained employment. As colleagues know, I usually like to be polite and diplomatic in my exchanges in the chamber, but I have rarely heard anything as downright stupid as what I have just heard from Rhona Brankin. Let me reverse the question: if every single new teacher had gained employment by this point, how on earth would we fill the 6,000 vacancies that we know are going to arise during the year? It has always been the case that new teachers gain employment as vacancies arise during the year. That was the case under Labour; it will continue to be the case under this Administration. We also know that, last year, a higher proportion of teachers ended up in employment than was ever the case under the previous Administration.

John Scott (Ayr) (Con):

As the Deputy First Minister knows, teaching students are given a guaranteed placement at the end of their training period and councils are signed up to provide such places each year. However, as probationer teachers are not allocated to councils on a fully funded basis, councils are required to identify vacant posts into which probationer teachers can be placed in order that the annual targets for placing probationers are met. Given the often unsatisfactory impact of that on both probationer teachers and qualified teachers who are seeking posts, does the Scottish Government—notwithstanding the cabinet secretary's previous reply—have any plans to review the current approach to funding probationer teacher posts?

Nicola Sturgeon:

I will not repeat the answer that I gave to Rhona Brankin but supplement it by saying that, as I assume the member is aware, the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning has established a working group to look at the issues around the employment of probationer teachers and to ensure that anything that we can do to ease that process is done. That group is due to report shortly.

Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):

Teachers in my constituency who have now been unemployed for a year following their probationary year have highlighted their difficulty in obtaining supply teaching posts because teachers who have taken early retirement are often the preferred option for many local authorities. What action is being taken to review that position to ensure that, in the year after their probationary year, new teachers are given real opportunities to get into the job market ahead of those who have taken early retirement—for which they may have received a fairly large lump sum from the Government—who need to be employed at enhanced rates compared with those of new teachers?

Nicola Sturgeon:

Karen Gillon raises a fair point. As I said to Rhona Brankin, last year's statistics showed that 93 per cent of probationer teachers accessed employment, but Karen Gillon raises a valid point about local authorities' preferences in relation to supply teachers. I am sure that the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning will ensure that that point is fully considered by the working group that I spoke of.


Schools (Sport)

To ask the First Minister how the Scottish Government intends to support sport in schools ahead of the 2012 Olympic games in London and the 2014 Commonwealth games in Glasgow. (S3F-956)

The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Nicola Sturgeon):

There is no doubt that hosting two of the world's most prestigious sporting events in two great cities within a two-year period presents all of Scotland with great opportunities to make material improvements to people's lives. That is why we are investing £238 million to deliver a successful Commonwealth games in Glasgow in 2014 and why we have consulted widely to establish where and how we can best use the games to Scotland's benefit so that they leave a lasting legacy to all areas of Scotland. However, Scotland's legacy ambitions will inevitably be constrained by the diversion of £150 million of lottery funds from Scottish distributors to pay for the London 2012 games. I hope that all members will join us in seeking the return of that money so that it is used for the benefit of Scotland and Scottish sport.

John Lamont:

I draw the Government's attention to the recent comments of the Olympic champion Chris Hoy on the importance of training facilities. I also draw attention to the written answers that my colleague Liz Smith has received that reveal that, in a number of critical areas, the Minister for Communities and Sport has no information on grass-roots sporting facilities and on sports in schools. Does the Deputy First Minister agree that, ahead of the next Olympic games and Commonwealth games, it is vital that the Scottish Government looks at detailed provision of grass-roots sporting facilities to identify where we need to improve facilities?

Nicola Sturgeon:

Yes, I agree with that. I was very privileged to meet Chris Hoy last week, when we hosted the successful Olympic athletes in Edinburgh castle. I was delighted to get his agreement during that meeting to work with us as we seek to improve sporting facilities in the run-up to both 2012 and 2014. I contend that the Government has already shown its commitment to sport—following on, I concede, from that of the previous Government—in making a substantial financial commitment to the Commonwealth games in Glasgow in 2014. Across the period of the spending review, we are increasing by some 44 per cent the funding that is made available to sportscotland. In addition to that, through the cashback for communities scheme we are investing millions of pounds in good-quality grass-roots sports facilities.

All in all, the Government has shown its commitment, but we will continue to work with—I hope—all members in the chamber as well as those who are on the front line of Scottish sport in order to ensure that we are doing everything possible to give them the best facilities and the best possible chance of medal success.

Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):

The Deputy First Minister mentioned lottery funding. I am sure that she is aware of the cross-party support in Parliament for that funding. Is she considering sending a deputation of members from all parties in the Parliament to Westminster to ensure that we get that lottery funding back?

Nicola Sturgeon:

As I have already said, the Government is determined to pursue that issue. I am delighted with the support that it has attracted, and we look forward to speaking to all members who have an interest about how we take the issue forward over the coming weeks and months.

Meeting suspended until 14:15.

On resuming—