Plenary, 01 Mar 2001

Meeting date: Thursday, March 1, 2001

Official Report 678KB pdf

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First Minister's Question Time

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SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

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Prime Minister (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Prime Minister and what issues will be discussed. (S1F-875)

In replying to John Swinney, I wish to put on record on behalf of my party—and, I am sure, on behalf of everybody else in the chamber—our appreciation of Lord John Mackay of Ardbrecknish, who has tragically died. He was a man of integrity and a great public servant, who made an enormous contribution to the Conservative party and to the country. I hope that the Parliament shares those sentiments. We express our sincere condolences to his wife and family and to his enormous number of friends, many of whom were represented at the funeral yesterday. [Applause.]

I last met the Prime Minister on 16 February in Glasgow.

Before Mr Swinney responds, I would like to add to what the First Minister has said. Because of the snow, I was unable to get to John Mackay's funeral yesterday, and I would like to add my tribute to him.

I associate the Scottish National Party with the First Minister's remarks—they are most appropriate.

Does the First Minister agree that our rural communities face an enormous crisis? Will he acknowledge the wide support that was expressed yesterday for the stance that was taken by the Minister for Rural Development and the Scottish Executive rural affairs department in tackling the foot-and-mouth problem in Scotland? Does he share our deep dismay at the identification and announcement of two cases of foot-and-mouth disease in Scotland?

Yesterday, the Minister for Rural Development said that he would not extend his actions until such time as

"an actual case of foot-and-mouth disease was confirmed in Scotland."—[Official Report, 28 February 2001; Vol 10, c 10.]

Will the First Minister take this opportunity to reinforce the Minister for Rural Development's message and agree to some of the proposals that were advanced by the Opposition yesterday, such as the proposals for a compulsory disinfecting scheme and for a wider public information campaign to raise awareness about what the public can do to help in the circumstances—and about what they must definitely not do to hinder the efforts that are being made?

I welcome and agree with every point that John Swinney made. The issue should unite not only our country, but the whole United Kingdom. I, too, want to praise the work of the Minister for Rural Development and the whole rural affairs department. I also highlight the close working relationships that we have with not only London, but Brussels.

I associate myself with John Swinney's concern about the deepening crisis that faces our rural communities. We are all well aware of the severe difficulties that face the farming industry, and two cases of foot and mouth have indeed been confirmed this morning—one in Lockerbie and one in Canonbie. Movement restrictions are now in place within a 10km radius of each of the farms. A total of 410 sheep and 437 cattle will eventually be destroyed at the premises.

I share John Swinney's concern that this is not an issue just for rural communities, but for us all in Scotland. That is why I say that we must continue our vigilance and continue to treat the countryside with respect. In one sense, banning movement helps, but on the other hand, every person who lives in Scotland can help by abiding by the suggestions that have been made.

The Minister for Rural Development is monitoring the situation very carefully and will want to take any further action that he sees fit in relation not only to people's conduct in the countryside, but to anything that emerges from close discussions with colleagues in London.

The First Minister referred to the deepening crisis in our rural communities, which affects almost every sector of those communities. Last week, I visited the port of Fraserburgh, where I met a skipper who told me that he is faced with a choice between tying up his boat and going bankrupt or going to sea and destroying the future of the Scottish fishing industry.

There are 300 boats now involved in a voluntary tie-up scheme that has been organised by the Scottish fishing industry. I welcome the First Minister's undertaking to meet the fishing industry next week. When he does so, will he give the industry the message that it needs to hear, which is that the Executive will pay for a temporary tie-up scheme to provide a future for the Scottish fishing industry?

Let me again identify myself with the fishermen who are facing this plight. Since before Christmas, the conservation of cod stocks has been a key generator of concern among fishermen. As John Swinney confirmed, I met briefly the fishermen, who are represented in the gallery today. I am very willing to meet the Scottish Fishermen's Federation and representatives of the group that lobbied the Parliament today.

The SFF has made a huge contribution to the debate. Its representatives have left their suggestions for a way forward with Rhona Brankin and Ross Finnie. Those suggestions concentrate on decommissioning, but a tie-up scheme is also suggested. In meeting the SFF with such urgency next week, we appreciate that we have to move forward on the issues. However, we also say to the fishermen who are here today that we have a long-term, shared aspiration to have a sustainable fishing industry in Scotland in the years to come. The debate should be about capacity, stocks and conservation. It should also be about a Parliament and an Executive that listen. We want to respond as soon as possible.

The First Minister talked about securing a long-term future for the fishing industry. At the rally that took place across the road earlier today, one fisherman said, "How can you talk about a long-term future if you do not have a present?" The crisis is now. Will the First Minister undertake to provide temporary assistance for the fishing industry for a tie-up scheme that will allow fishermen to bridge the difficult circumstances that they are in and that will provide a basis on which a long-term future can be created? The crisis is now, and it needs the Executive to act now.

I have already confirmed that enormous difficulties face the fishing industry. That is why Rhona Brankin met the Scottish Fishermen's Federation this morning and why we will hold meetings next week. We have embraced this with a real sense of urgency. We have received proposals from the SFF on tie-up and decommissioning. We are looking at those proposals very closely, and will move quickly after we have considered the matters that are before us.

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Cabinet (Meetings)

I begin by thanking the First Minister for the generous tribute that he paid to John Mackay, Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish. I thank the First Minister, the Secretary of State for Scotland, John Swinney and others for attending John's funeral service yesterday.

To ask the First Minister when the Scottish Executive's Cabinet will next meet and what issues will be discussed. (S1F-863)

The Scottish Executive Cabinet will next meet on 6 March when it will discuss issues of importance to the people of Scotland.

I am sure that the crisis that has been caused in our rural communities by the recent outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease will be discussed at that meeting. I welcome the measures that the Government and the Scottish Executive have taken, particularly in light of the worrying news that the disease has spread into Scotland. It is clearly a virus that recognises no national or political boundaries.

We know that there have been relationship problems in the past between the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Scottish Executive rural affairs department. I do not wish to dwell on those problems but, in light of that history, can the First Minister assure members that there will be a fully co-ordinated response to the foot-and-mouth outbreak throughout the whole United Kingdom?

The simple answer is yes, but I will amplify that by saying that there is the closest co-operation, not only between Edinburgh and London, but between London and Edinburgh and Brussels. It is vital that we take a co-ordinated approach. Too many farms, families and futures are at stake for us not to do so. I give a categorical assurance that a co-ordinated response is being made now and that it will continue for the duration of the outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease in the UK.

The current situation will almost certainly lead to a further increase in beef imports and to further dumping on the British market. Is the First Minister satisfied that enough is being done through the Food Standards Agency to ensure that imported beef from Germany and elsewhere conforms to British food safety standards, given the five instances that have been identified by the Food Standards Agency of substandard beef finding its way on to the supermarkets in this country? Can our inspection systems cope with that increased volume of imports?

The points that David McLetchie raises are important. Discussions with the Minister for Rural Development would confirm that the stringent checks that are in place will continue. Indeed, they have been stepped up this week, in view of what is happening in the United Kingdom. I want that reassurance to emanate not only to MSPs in this Parliament, but to people in Scotland, especially those who depend on farming for their livelihoods.

When the First Minister next meets his Cabinet, will he ensure that fisheries is at the top of the agenda, along with the farming crisis? On Monday, I met 300 skippers in the north-east of Scotland and, on Tuesday, I met 70 owners of processing companies in the north and north-east of Scotland. Yesterday, I joined John Buchan of the Fishermen's Action Committee on his vessel the Fairline, at the head of a flotilla of 40 vessels. Today, 500 fishermen from all over Scotland have come to the Scottish Parliament to present their case. Many of them are present in the public galleries. Those fishermen represent 25,000 jobs in Scotland's coastal communities.

Question.

Will the First Minister give a commitment today that he will give the short-term aid that will ensure the viability of our fishing fleet and coastal communities? We are talking about less than £10 million that is needed—not next week, not next month, but in the next few days.

Although I accept the sincere sense of urgency that is felt by members in all parts of the chamber, it is important not to drive wedges between any particular MSP and any political party. We are all committed to a sustainable fishing industry. As I have said, we are dealing with real urgency with the suggestions that the SFF has made. There are financial consequences of that. All that is being dealt with very quickly and effectively. As I said, Rhona Brankin and I will meet the fishing industry next week. Our response is as immediate as that. I accept that real urgency is required.

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Foot-and-Mouth Disease

To ask the First Minister what measures have been taken in connection with the outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease and what other measures are being considered. (S1F-870)

The Scottish Executive is taking all necessary measures to contain and deal with the disease. Those were outlined in the Minister for Rural Development's statement yesterday.

I thank the First Minister for that answer. Today's news is the news that we all hoped we would never hear. The disease was eradicated 34 years ago, so will the First Minister confirm that it can be contained and eradicated again, if proper and effective measures are taken? Will he give serious consideration to using the statutory powers that are available to extend the use of the policy of disinfection? Will he confirm that there will be sufficient quantities of disinfectant? Many people suspect that there may prove to be shortages. Will the process of distribution of disinfectant be sufficient or will other agencies require to be brought in? Does the First Minister agree that public information is essential at this time? Does he agree with the suggestion that was put forward yesterday that a television and radio public information campaign about what is safe and what is unsafe should take place in the next day or so?

Again, those points are welcome, but I think that the Minister for Rural Development took care of most of them yesterday. I will, however, confirm again that effective attacks on the disease are in place. There are 30 confirmed cases in the United Kingdom today. The main objective must be to contain and eradicate the disease. The rural affairs department, the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and indeed Europe must all drive to ensure that that happens.

Fergus Ewing also raised important questions on disinfection. I have assurances that those questions are now being effectively dealt with. No area should be without disinfectant, although supplies will be stepped up in some parts of Scotland and the United Kingdom to ensure that proper treatment can be given to those who are walking and that there is enough for the other uses to which disinfectant is put.

We have a genuine concern about foot-and-mouth disease. The figures rise as each day unfolds—the figure of 30 confirmed cases might have risen since I stood up. I say to Fergus Ewing that our clear unity of purpose is to ensure that we get rid of the disease. Only then will the farming community be able to start to march forward. Farmers have faced BSE, swine fever and a recent drop in income, but this situation is truly a crisis for farmers. We want to see foot-and-mouth disease eradicated as soon as possible.

A lot of members wish to ask questions, but I will give priority to members I was unable to call yesterday.

Obviously, I am sad to hear that cases of foot-and-mouth disease have been confirmed in my constituency.

The First Minister mentioned that he has been working with the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and with a number of other organisations. What communication does he have with local authorities such as Dumfries and Galloway Council—the leader of which I spoke to earlier today—to ensure that problems that they identify are addressed as quickly as possible? Councils are responsible for much of the emergency planning and for the implementation of enforcement measures.

I can reassure Elaine Murray that every possible step is being taken to involve as many organisations as possible. It is clear that local authorities have an important—indeed, vital—role in relation to footpaths and rights of way. The Minister for Rural Development said yesterday that he would consider in more detail taking action on footpaths, when cases of foot and mouth occurred in Scotland. That reality is now in our midst and discussion and action with local authorities will be key in ensuring that the problem is tackled.

What information is being made available to farmers who might be concerned about what they should do to deal with attacks of foot and mouth and to minimise the risk of spreading the disease? Is consideration being given to extending action to places such as railway stations and airports, through which people might be travelling who are unaware that they are carrying infection?

Iain Smith highlighted the fact that the situation is fluid and fast moving.

Information is available and farmers also have access to veterinarians, Government and the National Farmers Union. I want to put on record our appreciation of the NFU and its chief executive, with whom we are working closely and with a common purpose to tackle the problems.

If members have suggestions on ways to improve communication and information, the Minister for Rural Development is keen not only to listen, but to take appropriate action, if necessary.

Through an unfortunate set of circumstances, one of the infected farms happens to be located in a town, rather than in a remote location. Will the First Minister ensure that, because of those circumstances, liaison with the public will be such that they will be fully informed about the disposal of carcases, which I am sure they will support?

Will the First Minister ensure the removal of the apparent blockages in the system that prevent the disinfecting with a layer of disinfected straw of public roads through unfenced grounds? I know that, for many people in Dumfries and Galloway in particular, that blockage is prevalent. They are concerned that they have been unable to put those measures in place.

We need the public's support, particularly in the areas and farms in which cases of foot-and-mouth disease have been confirmed. We will pursue further suggestions to ensure that public liaison is in place. I am assured that we are working closely on information to ensure that the public not only appreciate what is happening, but are prepared for some of the activities that will take place.

I want to make it clear and to give a firm message from the Parliament that anywhere that requires disinfectant or disinfected straw to deal with problems as they arise should have those measures. We will ensure that that becomes a reality, particularly in areas where cases have been confirmed and with which additional dangers and difficulties are associated.

Although I wish to get to question 4, I call Christine Grahame to ask a brief question.

Thank you, Presiding Officer.

Once the crisis is over—I trust that that will happen shortly—and in the medium to longer term, will the First Minister and the Cabinet consider locating abattoirs closer to the points of livestock production, given the spider's web of movement of animals, some of which travel 700 miles?

This is an extremely complex issue. Everybody is well aware that, in the aftermath of BSE, many abattoirs were closed down on health grounds. That has resulted in the existence of large abattoirs throughout the country, which has led to the complex movement of livestock that we see today. I can assure members that the Minister for Rural Development is considering whether, in exceptional circumstances, there can be direct movement from farm to abattoirs to ensure that meat is processed.

After the crisis ends—we hope to end it as soon as we can—we will need to get together with the farming community, the National Farmers Union of Scotland and all those who are concerned, to ensure that we have a farming industry for the future, that we build up confidence and that, where necessary, we support the farming community in marketing and in every way possible, so that it can move away from crisis towards a more prosperous and sustainable future.

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Fisheries (Haddock)

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Executive is doing to protect haddock fisheries during the implementation of the cod recovery plan. (S1F-868)

The Executive and fishermen share the same goal, which is long-term sustainable fisheries. We are committed to effective conservation of stocks. We have acted to protect haddock stocks by introducing the requirement to have square-mesh panels in fishing nets. Rhona Brankin met fishermen's leaders this morning to progress discussions about the issues that face the industry. I can assure Parliament that those matters are being considered with the industry as a matter of real and serious urgency.

I understand from the First Minister's earlier remarks that he intends, with Rhona Brankin, to meet representatives of the fishing industry next week. Before that meeting, will he consider the fact that it was a policy-related matter that brought about this crisis in the industry, and will he undertake to hold talks—if necessary with UK ministers—to secure the necessary authority and resources to fulfil the short-term needs of the Scottish fishing industry?

That is happening at present and it will also happen next week. On fishing, as on agriculture, we need continuing dialogue with UK ministers. We serve the same interests—the fishermen and their communities. Discussions will continue. As part of the exercise, Rhona Brankin and I will meet representatives of the fishing industry next week. We want to reflect the solidarity of this Parliament and Executive and to ensure that we move forward and benefit the industry.

Does the First Minister agree that the severe problems that face the fishing industry have wider ramifications for people such as net makers and fish processors? The loss of even a handful of jobs in villages such as Kinlochbervie or Lochinver in my constituency would be a disaster for remote Highland areas. Does the First Minister agree that the enterprise network has a hugely important role to play? Will the Scottish Executive make representations to the enterprise network to seek the maximum possible assistance during the months ahead?

I can confirm to Jamie Stone that that is already happening. In Grampian, we have established a group to look into fish processing. Rhona Brankin will meet that group next week to discuss some of the ideas that it has come up with. I can give that guarantee. We want to get all parts of the enterprise network involved because it has an enormous contribution to make. That will be done.

I welcome the First Minister's commitment to meet fishermen next week. I also welcome his statement today that he wants to proceed with urgency. Does he appreciate fully that the reason why the crews of 300 fishing boats have been on strike this week is that fishermen could not stomach going to sea and slaughtering young immature haddock, 90 per cent of which are being discarded, dead, over the sides of fishing boats? If fishermen are forced back to sea through financial pressure, that slaughter will continue and the future will be gone.

Given that the amount of short-term aid that is required to solve this problem is less than Rangers pays for a striker, will the First Minister, when he meets the fishermen next week, at least indicate that he understands that this is exactly the sort of issue that justifies the existence of this Parliament—and, indeed, of the Government—in responding to the concerns of one of Scotland's vital industries?

It has been an interesting 20 minutes and it has been difficult to inject any humour, but I will not pick up on Alex Salmond's analogy of a transfer fee for a Rangers player. Let me be serious. Alex Salmond, Rhona Brankin and I have met representatives of the fishing community. We appreciate the urgency. I understand the serious consequences that lie ahead for the industry.

The fishermen do an incredible job on behalf of the nation and we appreciate that. I think that Alex Salmond will agree that we must now consider the report and meet the Scottish Fishermen's Federation and the group that is considering fish processing. It is vital that we move forward with a great deal of urgency.

As the First Minister will be aware, the current crisis affects not only the catching sector, but the fish processing sector, which employs many thousands of people in Aberdeen and the north-east. What continued progress can be made to support the processing sector, given that it is also vital in ensuring that Scotland has a sustainable fishing industry?

Scottish Enterprise and the enterprise network are considering the future of the industry and its structure. The processing group is considering the north-east at the moment and, as I said, it will report to Rhona Brankin next week. We hope to take matters forward after that. There is unity on this issue in the Parliament. If any members—including those from Aberdeen—want to discuss those matters further with me, Rhona Brankin or the Minister for Rural Development, we would be very willing to do so.