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Chamber and committees

Local Government and Transport Committee,

Meeting date: Tuesday, May 30, 2006


Contents


Petition


Home Safety Officers (PE758)

The Convener:

I welcome our first group of witnesses, from whom we will take evidence on petition PE758, which was submitted by Jim Black of the home safety committee of the Scottish Accident Prevention Council. The petition, which calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Executive to place a statutory requirement on local authorities to employ home safety officers, was passed on to us by the Public Petitions Committee and we decided to take evidence on it.

I welcome Jim Black of the Scottish Accident Prevention Council; the SAPC's vice-chair, Brian Topping; Hazel Leith, who is home safety development officer for the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents in Scotland; and Sarah Colles, who is ROSPA's home safety adviser. We look forward to hearing your evidence. I hand over to Jim Black for an explanation of the reasoning behind the petition. After we have heard from any other members of the panel who have something to say, we will move on to questions.

Jim Black (Scottish Accident Prevention Council):

The committee has received our briefing paper. The Scottish Accident Prevention Council has been around since 1931 and has campaigned for a long time to improve safety in Scotland in a variety of ways. The home safety committee feels that, in the 21st century, it is time that we reduced the number of people who are injured in their own homes.

In our petition, we ask that local authorities should employ home safety officers. We feel that it would be best for home safety officers to be employed by local authorities because those bodies have fingers in many pies, including health boards and fire boards, and can play a co-ordinating role in bringing together voluntary agencies, charities and other agencies to create a safer Scotland.

Do any other members of the panel wish to make introductory remarks?

Brian Topping (Scottish Accident Prevention Council):

As we all know, we have road safety officers in Scotland; we fully support them. Over the years, they have had targets to reduce the number of accidents on our roads. Far more accidents happen in the home environment, however. We are calling for a system of home safety officers, with the aim of reducing the number of accidents in the home. If we were able to do that—if people had fewer accidents—we would save money for the national health service. We are calling for a spend-to-save scheme.

Sarah Colles (Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents):

We cover accident prevention in all areas: at work, on the road and at home. Many more resources go into the prevention of occupational and road accidents than go into the prevention of accidents at home.

Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab):

Since the petition came to the Public Petitions Committee, I have taken a keen interest in the debate on the issues. Some of the evidence seems to run counter to your argument. Local authorities have told us that they already provide such a service, although perhaps not in exactly the way that you propose. How widespread among local authorities is the provision of home safety services? What are the gaps, of which authorities may not be aware?

Jim Black:

Some local authorities employ full-time home safety officers, whereas others add home safety to the remit of their trading standards or environmental health officers. However, the scale of the problem is so large that a dedicated, full-time person is needed in each authority if everything is to be pulled together. There are about six or seven full-time home safety officers in Scotland and about the same again with a part-time remit.

Michael McMahon:

You mentioned earlier that you co-ordinate safety across a whole host of agencies. From my constituency experience, I know that the fire and rescue service is now much more proactive in its work. Changes to the service mean that officers visit people in their homes and address safety issues. Will you give us a flavour of your discussions with fire and rescue services on the role that they could play in filling the gaps?

Jim Black:

As I am based in Edinburgh, I will give examples of what is happening in Edinburgh at the moment. Recently, I started a home-check scheme for older people in the city. Given that it is not possible for me to cover 500,000 people on my own, I have gone into partnership with the Care and Repair Forum Scotland's handyperson service. When an older person requests a home-check visit, one of Care and Repair's volunteers goes out and gives them advice. If any small jobs need to be done, the handyperson service can do them free of charge.

However, the direct answer to your question is that we and the fire and rescue service have established a joint referral service. If an officer from the fire and rescue service goes into a home to do a home fire safety check and sees anything that is over and above a fire hazard, which they deal with, they will refer the case to me for a home-check visit. We do the same thing when we go out on a home-check visit; it is a two-way referral system. If one of our home checkers sees a fire hazard, over and above the usual battery missing from a smoke detector or piles of newspapers, for example, they will refer the matter to the fire and rescue services. Our joint referral scheme seems to be working well so far.

Michael McMahon:

You give the impression that, although that work is taking place, it is happening on an ad hoc basis. The petition is about trying to ensure that each local authority adopts best practice and undertakes home safety checks by way of making a commitment to employ a full-time officer. Have you costed your proposal? What are the costs to local authorities and what are the savings for the health service by way of a reduction in demand?

Jim Black:

The only costs to a local authority would be the costs involved in the home safety officer post, which would depend on the salary that was agreed by the authority. As I said, given that we co-ordinate and pool resources, we are able to create a synergy that is greater than the sum of the parts. There would be no real costs over and above the salary of one home safety officer per authority.

The health service would be the main winner. It would save money because of the reduction in the number of people who attend accident and emergency. The money that would have been spent on A and E could be diverted elsewhere to reduce waiting times and so on. It should be a win-win situation for all.

To cut down to the bare minimum, what you are asking for is one officer per local authority.

Jim Black:

Yes.

Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab):

I also strongly support the petition and what you are trying to do. As a former science teacher, I know that home safety is considered in the early years of the secondary part of the curriculum, particularly from the electrical side: fire and so on. It seems a logical progression for agencies to work together. In what ways have you tried to dovetail with the education side? I was thinking not only about contacting the Minister for Education and Young People but about working with local authorities and within schools. You have also said that you would like restrictions to be placed on the sale of matches and cigarette lighters to persons under the age of 16. Will you talk a bit more about that?

Jim Black:

Through home safety Scotland, practitioners—some of whom are sitting in the public gallery—have a lot of contact with schools; they give presentations to and run events with schools. Here in Edinburgh, we have just built the risk factory, which is the first purpose-built experiential learning centre in Scotland. All primary 7 pupils from East Lothian, West Lothian, Midlothian and Edinburgh will go through the risk factory, which will teach them about all aspects of personal safety, including home safety. A lot of good work is going on with education departments, but it varies from local authority to local authority.

On your second question, the point that you raised relates to the brief from the fire safety champion, John Russell. I do not really feel that I can answer for him, but I understand what he is getting at when he talks about ending the sale of matches and cigarette lighters to under-16s.

Would you support that proposal, as well as getting your home safety officers?

Jim Black:

I thought that John Russell had just put that in as a wish list for himself. He supported us and then he threw in "I wish this could happen as well." Thanks to ROSPA's work, things are already changing and there is European legislation on child-resistant lighters.

Ms Maureen Watt (North East Scotland) (SNP):

It is probably not necessary to declare this, but Mr Topping and I were on Grampian Regional Council's public protection committee many years ago.

I am someone who prefers bottom-up government to legislation by central Government for local authorities, unless it is really necessary. Out of 32 local authorities, there are 11 safety officers. Why are safety officers not spread out over more local authorities? Why have certain authorities perhaps not seen the benefit of having a safety officer? Is it because the idea has not been taken up by the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities or has not been promoted? It has been said that there are no statistics to show that there would be a reduction in the number of people going to accident and emergency or hospitals and a reduction in the number of call-outs for the fire brigade. I am sure that if there were such statistics and if people could see the benefits of having safety officers, more local authorities would introduce them. Why has that not happened?

Brian Topping:

The simple answer is that many local authorities would love to have a safety officer and have given their support to the SAPC, as has the Chief and Assistant Chief Fire Officers Association. Seventy-eight per cent of hospitals throughout Scotland have supported what we are doing. However, as with resources for the Scottish Parliament, there is no bottomless supply of money in Government finance. The Government has to fund many mandatory areas, such as education, so there is not a lot of money left to do other things. As a result of accidents in the home, more than 18,000 people go to accident and emergency, not counting people who go to their local doctor; in 2003, 226 people died as a result of such accidents. When people consider the numbers, we have their support.

If there was funding for even one home safety officer in every local authority, as Mr Black has said, they could co-ordinate with the fire service and education departments as one of their mandatory functions. Working with local authorities in that way, we could reduce the number of accidents that happen, which could save the health service a large amount of money and reduce waiting times and the amount of time that people have to take off work. The list of benefits is endless.

ROSPA has a successful home safety book that a lot of SAPC members have distributed to schools as it educates young children about how to prevent accidents happening in the home.

The Convener:

In your submissions, both of your organisations identified the fact that 226 people died in 2003 as a result of accidents in the home. Apart from fires, which account for 70 or 80 of those deaths, are there any large categories that are a major concern?

Jim Black:

Falls are a big killer among older people.

Are there any other categories of accidents that a home safety officer would be able to focus on as an area in which reductions could be made?

Jim Black:

Falls, burns, scalds, poisonings—those are the main categories.

Sarah Colles:

Burns and scalds are some of the worst and most upsetting injuries and could easily be avoided. They are also some of the most expensive injuries to treat. If a child is scalded by a bath that is too hot or by a spilled cup of tea, they will have to have years and years of skin grafts, which will cost a lot of money. Fortunately, those accidents tend not to be as numerous as falls among older people.

Do you target particular types of properties or are your investigations across the board?

Jim Black:

It varies among authorities. In Edinburgh, I am fortunate enough to have quite good statistics that I have broken down into postcode areas, which means that I can specifically target the postcode areas where most accidents take place. In other areas, the statistics might not be as good as Edinburgh's are or might be collected in a different way. The collection of statistics is a problem, but that is another issue. All households will be targeted, however.

John Farquhar Munro:

Ms Colles mentioned scalding. The Parliament received a petition about the possibility of fitting anti-scald valves in domestic water supply systems. She also mentioned the possibility that someone could be scalded by a spilled cup of tea. There are two distinct issues.

What do the witnesses say to the suggestion that local authorities should encourage households to fit anti-scald valves in their domestic supply systems?

Jim Black:

They should definitely do so. A requirement to fit such valves is now part of building standards regulations, thanks to the petition that you mentioned. However, the requirement applies only to new and refurbished properties.

We would encourage anyone to have a thermostatic safety valve fitted as a safety feature.

The convener asked about categories of accidents. What is the major fault that you find in dwellings, apart from smoke alarms that have no battery?

Jim Black:

It varies. A person's lifestyle is probably the major problem. A few years ago, we conducted a survey in Edinburgh and found that some of the most expensive houses had the most tripping hazards because people could not afford to maintain the property once they had paid their large mortgage and council tax payments. We found that people were rattling around inside unsafe houses with worn carpets, stair treads and so on.

David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con):

Some of the comments that have been made today have raised the issue of duplication of work. Why do we have a Scottish Accident Prevention Council as well as a Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents? How big are the organisations? How are they funded? How many people do they employ?

Sarah Colles:

In the United Kingdom, ROSPA employs about 100 people altogether. I think that eight of those are employed in Scotland, in our Edinburgh office. Of those eight, two are funded by the Scottish Executive's Health Department to promote home safety in Scotland. ROSPA covers all areas of safety. A lot of our effort goes into road safety, water safety and occupational safety. Our main office is in Birmingham, but we have a few people in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales.

Jim Black:

The SAPC is a charity that is funded by membership fees from local authorities and health boards. It has three main committees, dealing with road safety, home safety and water and leisure safety. It has no employees. The board of the SAPC includes an elected member and an official from every local authority. Health boards nominate people to sit on the board as well, as does the Chief and Assistant Chief Fire Officers Association.

What came first, ROSPA or the SAPC? If the SAPC came after ROSPA, why was there a need for an SAPC? Why did you not just let ROSPA get on with it?

Jim Black:

ROSPA does not have enough staff to cover the whole of Scotland. As you heard, it has only two home safety people.

I am just interested in why we have two organisations that—from your explanations—seem to duplicate a range of functions.

Jim Black:

I do not think that we duplicate functions. The SAPC is local authority based and does work relating to sharing information, whereas ROSPA is more of a campaigning body.

Sarah Colles:

Yes. We are a lobbying and campaigning body. We are a charity as well and are a very small organisation, compared with the size of the accident problem.

I understand that; I am just saying that there seems to be an element of duplication in relation to the two bodies, both of which receive funding from the taxpayer to perform safety functions.

Brian Topping:

The SAPC takes a partnership-working approach, which is something that everyone always talks about. ROSPA's two home safety officers give us advice, take minutes and so on. As Mr Black said, membership of the SAPC board includes elected members from all local authorities, council officials, the odd home safety officer—it would be super, obviously, if we were able to have on our board a home safety officer from every council—representatives from CACFOA and members of health boards. All those people work in local communities across Scotland. However, if we had home safety officers in every local authority, we could co-ordinate people's efforts more effectively. Our committee has supported CACFOA with regard to the issue of domestic sprinklers and has done work on safety by design, which involves ensuring that safety features are built into new houses.

Two home safety officers cannot cover the whole of Scotland and get local authorities working with health boards, fire brigades and so on. It is important that people are able to work in partnership to reduce the number of accidents and deaths in the home environment.

David McLetchie:

If the SAPC is supported by local authorities and uses seconded staff to carry out its work, should you not persuade local authorities—rather than the Scottish Parliament or the Scottish Executive—of the case that you are making? Presumably, if local authorities, which support the SAPC, all engaged a home safety officer, the Scottish Parliament or the Scottish Executive would not need to tell them to do so. If you persuade your sponsors, you have solved your problem.

Jim Black:

I understand your argument, but it comes back to funding—each local authority has only a limited budget and some authorities do not regard having home safety officers as a priority.

Are you saying that the Executive should give resources from the block grant to all councils that are members of SAPC to employ home safety officers?

Jim Black:

Yes. That would be a spend-to-save scenario because there would be a reduction in the number of people having accidents.

What evidence is there of a lower accident rate in authorities that have home safety officers as opposed to those that do not?

Jim Black:

Any evidence is probably only anecdotal because, as I mentioned earlier, statistics are collected differently in each health board area and it is difficult to prove results one way or the other.

My target in Edinburgh is to reduce by 15 per cent the number of people who are admitted to A and E by 2008. When I started, the figures that I had were not as good as those I have now. It will be difficult to prove a lower accident rate one way or the other over just one year, but it will be fine in three years because we will have a robust baseline to start with.

Brian Topping:

As we mentioned earlier, road safety officers were funded by Government many years ago and targets were set. If the Executive is so minded, I see no reason why there should not be funding for home safety officers in all 32 local authority areas. In that way, we would be able to set targets and get the councils to work in partnership to reduce the number of accidents.

As Mr Black and Mrs Colles said, the health service would save money if we reduced the number of people who have to go to A and E or their local general practitioner or who are off work. The Executive could set targets if the posts were made mandatory and properly funded. If they are not mandatory, councils that do not have the money will not be able to afford the luxury of having an officer.

David McLetchie:

Jim Black said in response to Maureen Watt's question that he envisaged each council having one home safety officer. Is it realistic to expect Glasgow, with 600,000 people, to get by with one home safety officer, when Clackmannan, whose population is barely a tenth of Glasgow's, would also have one officer?

Jim Black:

Yes. I am the home safety officer for Edinburgh and I like to think that my co-ordinating role makes a difference to the people of Edinburgh.

David McLetchie:

So it is part of the efficient government strategy. Might it be over the top to have a home safety officer for Clackmannan? Would it be more sensible to have one officer for Stirling, Clackmannan and Falkirk because the population of those areas is similar to the numbers that you look after in Edinburgh?

Jim Black:

Each local authority area is a different size. I cannot speak for Clackmannanshire, although it was a member of home safety Scotland until recently because the authority had a trading standards officer who had a remit for home safety. He has since been moved to Stirling, but still covers Clackmannanshire.

Clackmannanshire is not a good example to pick because it is so small, but one home safety officer is enough for larger cities. Having such an officer sends a message to people that home safety is taken seriously and that the officer is a good point of contact for anyone who wants to do some home safety work in the community. Lots of local wee groups do things, but they need to be pulled together to pool their resources and make a bigger difference.

David McLetchie:

If there were one officer per local authority, by the time back-up provisions were included, one might be spending £1 million or £1.5 million throughout Scotland. When I think about safety messages, I tend to think of national television advertising campaigns about using smoke detectors or campaigns that warn people about the dangers of chip-pan fires, which I understand cause a high proportion of accidents, or the dangers associated with not stubbing out cigarettes and so on. Might not consistent expenditure by the Scottish Executive on national campaigns similar to those that we have for road safety have as much impact—if not a greater impact—on the number of accidents as the employment of a network of safety officers? For the same money, we might end up with fewer accidents. Is that a reasonable proposition?

Jim Black:

No, because everything that you have mentioned is already a statutory function. Road safety officers are employed, but money is still put into the adverts.

I was talking about campaigns on smoke detectors in the home, chip-pan fires and people not extinguishing cigarettes.

Jim Black:

That is all fire safety stuff, which is covered by CACFOA. Campaigns such as the don't give fire a home campaign are funded by the Scottish Executive.

David McLetchie:

Indeed they are, but there is funding and funding. Such campaigns have a limited shelf life, but they are responsible for increasing awareness among the general public. The issue comes down to whether it would be better to spend a significant amount of money—in the order of £1 million to £2 million—on wider public education about dangers in the home, or whichever issue is highlighted, or on employing a network of local government officials. Is not that the issue?

Brian Topping:

We all agree that television adverts reach a big audience. However, surely there is nothing better than having someone working at grass-roots level in the community, whether with toddlers, in schools or with older people—we all know that people are living longer now—to educate them on the range of issues that have been mentioned. Surely that would complement any TV adverts that the Government or CACFOA wanted to put out. Both are important.

Hazel Leith (Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents):

I travel all over Scotland and visit lots of different local authorities. A national campaign on television would be fantastic and we would all love to have one, but it would cover only standard accidents or particular on-going issues. Different issues arise in different local authority areas. There are a lot of ethnic minorities and asylum seekers in Glasgow in comparison with Aberdeen, and people in Aberdeen might face different issues and have different practices in the home in comparison with people in a more remote area. Each local authority should have the opportunity to consider its own issues, rather than considering only general, national issues.

The Convener:

That brings us to the end of questioning. We will consider in due course a paper based on the evidence that you have given today and written submissions that we have received from a range of people. We will then consider whether we require to take further evidence from other witnesses or whether we can come to a conclusion and make recommendations with regard to the petition. We will consider all that in a few weeks' time. Thank you for coming along to give evidence in support of the petition.