Public Petitions Committee,

Meeting date: Wednesday, May 25, 2005

Official Report 249KB pdf

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New Petitions

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Sports Academy (Scottish Borders) (PE849)

Good morning everyone, and welcome to the ninth meeting in 2005 of the Public Petitions Committee. We have received no apologies for absence, but Jackie Baillie has said that she has to attend another committee meeting before she is able to join us.

The first new petition is PE849, from Kayleigh Boyd, on behalf of St Ronan's Primary School, calling for the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Executive to establish a sports academy in the Scottish Borders. Kayleigh Boyd, who is a pupil at St Ronan's Primary School, is here to make a brief statement to the committee in support of the petition. She is accompanied by her fellow pupils Eilidh Hughes and Robbie Stoddart. Welcome to the committee. You have a couple of minutes to make a presentation to us, after which we will ask you some questions.

Good morning. My name is Eilidh Hughes and with me are Robbie Stoddart and Kayleigh Boyd. We are primary 6 and 7 pupils at St Ronan's Primary School in Innerleithen. We thank you for having us here and we would like to present some ideas to you about the sports academy. Primaries 6 and 7 have been busy working on ideas. As I am speaking, Kayleigh will flick through our drawings.

A sports academy would be good, as sporting talent in Scotland is at a low. We would like young pupils to learn and progress at sport in the academy and become great sporting champions like Eric Liddell. The sports academy would provide sports education in pupils' chosen sports. It would also provide an academic education as normal. The age group for the sports academy would be 13 to 26. We think that children younger than 13 would not be able to cope with staying away from their families for so long a time.

I now hand over to Robbie, who will explain who, what and when about the academy.

First, what? We think that there should be a sports academy with instructors in all sports to coach young sporting talent to the highest level in pupils' chosen sports. The academy should have the very best facilities in order to set those high standards. Here is a list of sports that we would like to include in our academy: football, tennis, rugby, athletics, gymnastics, swimming, equestrianism, canoeing, cycling, hockey, cricket and netball. We would also like to tell you what we think the letters of sports academy stand for.

S is for sport; P is for performance; O is for Olympic champion; R is for respect; T is for talent; S is for spirit; A is for achievement; C is for confidence; A is for amazing; D is for determination; E is for encouragement; M is for magic; and Y is for young sportspeople.

Secondly, where? We think that the academy should be in the central Borders, as the Borders would be a great location for a sports academy, the biggest reason being the easy access from central places such as Edinburgh.

Thirdly, why? We should have a sports academy so that people can realise their own and others' sporting potential and so that more talent from this area can compete at the highest level. An academy would also attract more attention to the Borders sporting-wise. Our area would be a great training environment for young hopefuls.

We hope that you have taken in all that we have said today and have given it a lot of thought and consideration. Thank you for listening to our speech. We are now ready for some questions.

Thanks very much for your presentation. Given how good it was, I am sure that you are ready for questions.

I agree that the presentation was excellent. What gave you the idea of a sports academy?

We feel that Scotland's image is poor and we would like standards to improve in order to give Scotland a name in sport.

Does anyone else want to say something about that?

I agree with Kayleigh.

How did you come up with the idea of bringing a public petition to the Scottish Parliament?

Jenni Campbell came and helped us. She gave us the options of what we could do. We had a vote and the petition won.

Good. Well done.

Petitions always win.

Where would you like to locate the sports academy? I presume that it would be in Innerleithen, or do you have somewhere else in mind?

We were thinking more of Gala, because it is near the centre of the Borders. Netherdale is trying to do a project with the rugby and we are hoping to link in with that.

Good. Have you done any research on the demand that there would be from the Borders people? It does not matter if you have not. Have you had expressions of interest from the rugby clubs or the soccer clubs, for example?

We have not done anything like that yet, but that is something that we could look into.

What was the alternative way of getting the academy built? You considered approaching the Public Petitions Committee. What other approach did you consider? You said that you had a vote on it. What did you vote on?

We had the choice of a leaflet campaign or the petition. More people voted for a petition, so that is what we decided to do.

That is great. Thanks very much. Good luck.

Hi there. That was an excellent presentation and the petition is very good. Thanks very much for that. Can you imagine yourselves being at a sports academy and what that would mean for you personally?

As Eilidh said, we thought that the academy could be for people who are between the ages of 13 and 26. Up in Perth, there is a rugby club that some Scotland rugby players help out with in the summer. We hope that there could be similar clubs when training is not happening.

As Kayleigh said, rugby clubs and football clubs could help young people to learn about the sport and get better at it, even when there is a holiday.

Robbie, can you see yourself at a sports academy? How would that benefit you?

It would let us concentrate on things like our diet, which would be good.

Thank you very much for making such a good presentation. You mentioned that you envisaged that the academy would be residential. In other words, people would stay there to work on their sports. How would people get to go to the academy? Would they already have to be junior champions in their sport or could local authorities or schools put them forward for a place at the academy?

We hoped that we could get former sportsmen or experienced sportsmen to act as scouts. They could go to Border games and watch the running or the football. They could pick out people to look into and just see how they got on.

In other words, you hope that someone could spot a child's potential to be good and put them forward on that basis.

Yes.

Thank you for your excellent presentation, which you must have put a great deal of work into. My question follows up on Campbell Martin's. You mentioned that the academy would be for 13 to 26-year-olds, that it would be residential and that people would scout for potential athletic excellence. You have referred to a range of sports, not just rugby and football. Would it be a good idea if people who were champions in school sports, such as the 100m or the long jump, could be admitted to the academy? How would the residential arrangements work?

When they go to university, people pay the university to have a flat, for example. Perhaps the sports academy could pay for students to stay in a hotel or somewhere and they would pay the sports academy.

You mentioned that you intended that the academy would link up with Netherdale. If the academy is built in Gala, do you envisage that there would be residential accommodation on site?

As there is already a university at Netherdale, I think that we could perhaps put people in accommodation there.

Good morning. You look so professional and so charming that I am sure that you will manage to charm the birds out of the trees. It is a great honour to the Parliament and to you that you have chosen to present your petition to the Parliament. That speaks volumes not only about you, but about the Parliament's accessibility. I am sure that we all welcome that.

My question is simple. Your petition is presented in such a professional manner that I am sure that it will achieve the degree of success for which you had hoped. You make a plea on behalf of all potential athletes and other sportspeople. What sports do you participate in? I invite Robbie to answer first.

I do a bit of running and a lot of mountain biking and I play football and rugby.

I used to play for the Borders girls football team. I play netball and am going to start hockey. I have also played in a rugby team.

I think that I saw that Eilidh has a sports injury. What sport do you participate in, Eilidh?

I play netball, like Kayleigh. I have joined a hockey club and I sometimes play football as well.

You have done an excellent job. We are pleased to see you and I am sure that your school colleagues will be proud of the presentation that you made this morning. Thank you for coming.

We are joined this morning by Christine Grahame and Chris Ballance. I ask them whether they want to ask the students anything or make any comments.

I have a question for the petitioners. Do you know that Heriot-Watt University and Borders College are going to build on the site that you mentioned? Have you thought of contacting the heads of Heriot-Watt University in the Borders and Borders College about your idea while they are developing the site?

We have not done that yet, but it is a good idea, so we could look into doing it.

It is a serious point, because they are going to build residential units.

How would students at the academy of sport do their school lessons?

It would be a mixture of sports education and academic education so that students could receive an academic education as well. For one lesson, they might do maths and then they could do a lesson of football, for example.

We could ask the schools to give the students a set amount of work to get through each day or week. If they did that, the students would know what they would have to do each week and would not fall behind.

That is a good idea because in high school—where we live, anyway—the pupils already have a timetable and periods to work to.

Thank you and well done.

Congratulations to the petitioners and their class. Ought Scotland's sporting achievements to be better at the moment and would a sports academy help them? The same goes for the health of young people: could it be better and could a sports academy help in that?

Yes. At least we are good at curling, but we could be better at football, rugby and the sports that Robbie mentioned. We are quite an important country, but our sporting image is not very big, so we hope to build on it.

As Kayleigh said, we want to build on our sporting image with a sporting academy. Our champions are good at their sports, but they are not practised enough, if you see what I mean, so a sports academy would help them to practise and get better at their sports.

A lot of people who could be good with a lot of practice go unrecognised, so the sports academy could help with that as well.

In my area in North Lanarkshire, we have a sports comprehensive, Braidhurst High School. It is a school that specialises in sports and, if students from other schools are good at sports, they can go to the sports comprehensive and get additional teaching in the sports that they are good at. Is there any school like that in the Borders at the moment?

Not that I am aware of.

I wondered whether that was the case.

I ask committee members for suggestions on what to do with the petition.

I suggest that we contact the Scottish Executive and, perhaps, sportscotland to ask for their views on the petition.

Do members have any other suggestions?

If we were to send the petition to another committee, would it be the Enterprise and Culture Committee?

It probably would, but we will have to wait and see what the Executive's response is before we send the petition to another committee to consider.

To pick up on what Christine Grahame said, would it be worth while writing to Borders College and Heriot-Watt University?

Do you mean to see what their plans are?

Yes.

That would not do any harm.

Given Scotland's memorable win last night over the Barbarians, for a bit of fun it might be nice to contact the Scottish Rugby Union to see whether it has a view.

We are contacting sportscotland, but given that the petitioners mention rugby as a focal point for the academy, I see no harm in finding out what options are available for the proposal that Christine Grahame has brought to our attention. Do members agree that we do that?

Members indicated agreement.

Thanks all of you for coming this morning and well done again for your presentation. Once we receive responses from the people whom we write to, we will let you know what they tell us.

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Public Holidays (PE847)

Petition PE847, by Iain Scherr, on behalf of Clyde Valley High School, calls on the Scottish Parliament to consider and debate making more public holidays available to celebrate days of importance, such as Burns day on 25 January and St Andrew's day on 30 November.

Iain Scherr, who is a pupil at Clyde Valley High School, will make a brief statement to the committee in support of the petition. He is accompanied by his fellow pupils Samantha Mungall and Alexandra Gill. Welcome to the committee. I point out that Dennis Canavan is with us this morning. He recently introduced a member's bill to establish St Andrew's day as a bank holiday. We will give you an opportunity to contribute later, Dennis. First, we will hear Iain Scherr's contribution and discuss the points that he raises.

Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Iain Scherr and I am a first-year pupil at Clyde Valley High School in Wishaw. I thank you on behalf of my classmates for inviting us to this magnificent new building to air our views on why Scotland should have its own national holiday.

The United States has independence day, France has Bastille day and, just over a week ago, Norway celebrated its own constitution day, but what about Scotland? According to the First Minister, we are the best wee country in the world, but surely the best wee country deserves a national holiday for being just that—the best.

Scotland has the potential for a national holiday. We could be like the Irish and celebrate our patron saint St Andrew, or we could celebrate Scotland's national bard Robert Burns—or we could be optimistic and go for both. What sane person would give up the chance of an extra day or two off work, no matter which great Scot we are celebrating? We could have parades in the street, the saltire flying high and Scots all over the globe celebrating at the same time. A national holiday would boost the self-esteem of the Scottish race and make us feel justly proud of ourselves. Here's tae us! Wha's like us? Ladies and gentlemen, that is why Scotland deserves a national holiday.

My classmate Alexandra will share her views with you.

Ladies and gentlemen, did you know that Scotland is the poor European neighbour as far as public holidays are concerned? Just like Dundee Football Club, we are at the bottom of the league. While the average number of public holidays in Europe is 12, we poor Scots have to make do with just eight.

In case you think that all we are after is another day off school, let me clear up that misunderstanding. We are after not just any holiday, but a national holiday—one that is unique to the people of Scotland. After all, of the 46 countries in Europe, 43 have an official national holiday. Why, even Slovakia has joined the club, with the anniversary of the Slovak uprising day. Surely a country with a history as old as Scotland's deserves a day when its people can reflect on their past and focus on their future.

Ladies and gentlemen, it has been an honour to address you in this wonderful building. The new Scottish Parliament deserves such a gracious home, but do you not think that just one little thing is missing—a day when the whole country can feel proud to be Scottish?

Thank you for your time. My classmate Samantha Mungall will conclude our presentation.

Ladies and gentlemen, Scotland may be a very small nation, but it is still very important in world history. Just think what we have contributed to the world over the centuries. Would the world not be a different place if it were not for Scots such as John Logie Baird, Alexander Graham Bell, James Watt, Alexander Fleming, Charles Rennie Mackintosh, Robert Burns and—to bring things up to date—J K Rowling? Those are just a few of Scotland's famous sons and daughters.

If we were like any other nationality, we would march up and down Princes Street, banging drums and telling the world how wonderful we are. However—the modest Scots that we are—we tend to let others do that for us. Take tartan day in New York, for example. Is it not ludicrous that pipe bands, kilts, heather and everything else that is Scottish are given such a special place on a special day halfway around the world?

Ladies and gentlemen, I am sure that you are all aware of the bill that Dennis Canavan MSP has introduced to make St Andrew's day a public holiday. I will end by quoting him. He has said:

"People want to see Scotland have a national day like most other countries in the world. Clearly St Andrew's Day is the most appropriate day for that … It would be a celebration of the nation, and of its diversity of cultures and religions."

Thank you for listening.

Thank you for lodging your petition. As with the students who spoke to a petition earlier, I just wish that some of the adults who present petitions could be as succinct and articulate as you have been in making your case. Well done. Thank you for presenting your case so well to the committee.

I echo what Michael McMahon said. It is the second time this morning that I have felt like applauding at the end of a presentation. I thank the petitioners for that. I have come over all patriotic since you spoke. For an independent socialist Scotland, I add John Maclean to your list of good names to celebrate.

You talked about cultural and historical events that are connected to days. How would the people of Scotland react to that? What positive message would a special day for Burns, for example, send through Scotland?

Such a day would make people feel happy about themselves and give them a chance to go out on the streets to celebrate something instead of being locked up in the house or going to work, without anything to celebrate all through the year, apart from Christmas and new year, which are national events. There is nothing just for Scotland to celebrate.

You said that you would like the day to be celebrated throughout the world.

All Scots throughout the world could celebrate their home country.

I was impressed by the presentation. Samantha said that a national holiday would enable us all to reflect on the past and focus on the future, which struck a chord.

Alexandra said that.

I apologise. That would be an appropriate slogan to attach to a national day, of which I am in favour. I debate with people the day that we should choose. I welcome what the United States has done by choosing to celebrate tartan day, but that has slightly confused the issue.

I take on board your point about the argument that a day's production would be lost if we had another holiday. That does not hold much water with me, because we have fewer public holidays than most other European countries, as has been said. We are well able to accommodate another holiday.

Whatever day we chose, would we celebrate it whatever day of the week it fell on? If St Andrew's day fell on a Saturday or Sunday, would it be important to have a holiday on the Friday before or the Monday after, or would you just say that, in those years when St Andrew's day falls on a weekend, we accept that, on the basis that it is the day that is important, rather than the holiday? We would then celebrate that and forgo having a day off. Do you think that that would be workable?

That would be quite good. I like that idea.

Do you have a preference for which day is taken? St Andrew's day and Burns day are the most obvious ones. Do you or your classmates have a preference?

The preference is for St Andrew's day, mainly.

Thank you for your presentation, which you did very well. If you ever decide to stand for Parliament, I will vote for you. I particularly liked your suggestion of a Scottish uprising—perhaps that is something that we can work on. I was in New York for tartan day this year and I can assure you that it was a great day to be Scottish in New York. As you have mentioned, however, the Americans tend to focus on what they think of as Scotland—the tartan, the heather, the Highlands and so on. How do you see the national day of Scotland? What do you think that the day would entail, other than its being a holiday?

There would be celebratory parades on the street and people would have saltires in their hands, and so on.

I agree with Rosie Kane that the ideal day would be independence day. Rather carelessly, however, Scotland lost its independence some years ago. Perhaps with your help, we will get it back and celebrate independence together one day.

I think that there is great hope for the future when we have talent such as yours and that of the other kids who were here earlier. The presentation was fantastic and brilliant. I am all for St Andrew's day or, preferably, independence day. It was great to see the looks in your faces when you were presenting your petition. You are so proud of your country, which I think is absolutely fantastic.

The e-petition that you submitted carried 336 signatures. Did you petition anywhere else? Did you gather signatures at school? How did you form the idea of sending an e-petition?

We thought that e-petitioning would be easier than going around with pieces of paper and trying to gather everyone's signature. We could instead tell people where they could sign the petition and encourage them to tell their friends about it. We could e-mail people. For example, we e-mailed a number of MSPs, some of whom signed the petition.

Mr Bruce e-mailed his fellow teachers, some of whom also signed the petition.

That just shows us about the new technology—some of us are not all that familiar with it, but school kids are well familiar with it. I was saying that you got 336 signatures for the e-petition. I hope that the petition will go forward. Dennis Canavan will shortly be explaining his bill, the St Andrew's Bank Holiday (Scotland) Bill. You hope that we will have a St Andrew's day holiday, rather than a Burns day holiday. Is that correct?

Yes.

Just for information, the petition was lodged on the e-petitioner system and attracted 336 signatories. Of those, 327 came from Scotland; there were two each from Canada and England; and there was one each from Jamaica, Russia, Wales and Bavaria, with another one from elsewhere in Germany. You got a good spread of people showing an interest. Well done for that.

As there are no other questions, we will now have to decide what to do with the petition. First, however, we will hear from Dennis Canavan.

I will keep my comments brief, as the presentation was so excellent that I do not need to add much. I congratulate Iain, Alexandra and Samantha on the way in which they have presented the petition and I thank them for the support that they have expressed for my bill.

As the petitioners said, Scotland is at the bottom of the European league in terms of the number of public holidays. The policy memorandum that is associated with my bill points out that the average number of public holidays among countries in the European Union is 12. While we languish at the bottom with eight, Cyprus and Slovakia have 15 public holidays a year and Austria has 14. My bill would help to create a fairer deal for Scottish workers and it would make St Andrew's day a national day; it would give Scots the opportunity to celebrate our patron saint, our national identity and our cultural and ethnic diversity.

As you may know, convener, yesterday the Parliamentary Bureau decided to recommend that my bill be referred to the Enterprise and Culture Committee. I do not know whether the Public Petitions Committee can express support in principle for my bill or for the petition, but I would be grateful if the petition could at some stage be drawn to the attention of the Enterprise and Culture Committee.

I have one question for the petitioners. Did you come up against any opposition to the petition and, if so, did people give any reasons why a national holiday on St Andrew's day would not be a good idea?

I asked a lot of people, but I did not come up against any opposition.

Neither did I.

Only one or two people were opposed to the idea, but they had lived in America for a few years and then come back—they thought that we get enough holidays.

So the vast majority of the people whom you asked to sign the petition did so.

Yes.

I had a similar response during the consultation exercise that I conducted for my bill. That reinforces the case for my bill to become legislation.

I, too, think that a national day is a good idea; I just wish that Burns day and St Andrew's day were not in the middle of winter and that we could find a day in the middle of summer. That would allow us to have street fairs and parades and would give at least a decent chance of good weather. I endorse the sentiments that have been expressed about the need for a national day for Scotland.

When the committee considers a petition that relates to a bill that is going through the Parliament, it is our normal practice to refer it to the committee that is considering the bill. Therefore, I recommend that we send the petition to the Enterprise and Culture Committee, along with a copy of the Official Report of our discussion, which will allow that committee to consider the evidence that has been given this morning, in conjunction with any other evidence that Dennis Canavan produces. Do members agree to send the petition to the Enterprise and Culture Committee in support of Dennis Canavan's bill?

Members indicated agreement.

I thank the petitioners. I hope that they will keep an eye on the progress of Dennis Canavan's bill to see whether it achieves what the petition asks for.

I suspend the meeting for a couple of minutes to allow the petitioners to leave.

Meeting suspended.

On resuming—

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Gaelic Language Teachers (PE857)

Our next new petition is PE857 from Mrs C A Jackson, on behalf of Bowmore Primary School, which calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Executive to take urgent action to ensure adequate provision of Gaelic language teachers. In support of the petition, the petitioners have submitted the text of a song by pupils of the primary school, which has been circulated to members. Members have also viewed a video of the children singing the song, which they will agree is a novel and innovative way of presenting a petition.

The petitioners believe that, to keep the Gaelic language alive on Islay, children must be taught Gaelic in primary school. Although Bowmore Primary School has a Gaelic-medium unit, it does not have a primary 1 to primary 3 Gaelic teacher, and the petitioners are concerned that the post will not be filled until August 2006. In February, the Scottish Executive announced that an action group would be set up to tackle the need for more Gaelic teachers. Do members have any comments on the petition?

I have a particular interest in the subject because I was, for a while, the minister with responsibility for Gaelic. The Islay connection, which the petition deals with, was highlighted by the establishment of Ionad Chaluim Chille Ìle, the college and cultural centre, which I had the privilege of opening in August 2002.

I am concerned that, although a number of primary and secondary teachers were put in place at that time, they have not begun to affect the situation. I note the number of graduates that are due to come through in the next month or two. Although that is helpful, I am concerned that many of the people who have qualifications are not using them at the moment. There have been attempts to target as assistants qualified women whose children are perhaps at an age that would allow those women to return to the workforce. It is a matter of great regret that parents who want to have their children educated in Gaelic are not able to do so. Of course, the problem is not confined to Islay; it is an issue in other parts of Scotland.

The bottom line is that we cannot force teachers to go to a particular area. People who go through teacher training college very often want to go to the cities instead of staying in the rural areas where they are needed. I do not know how we can get over that problem other than by ensuring that the Executive encourages increased numbers of people to become qualified to teach in Gaelic and then perhaps considers ways of incentivising them to go to the schools where they are needed. I know that that is being considered in the new Ardnamurchan High School that was opened two or three years ago, and it might provide a way forward for the future.

Bowmore Primary School has raised a specific issue. We should ask the Executive to give us an update of the current figures and tell us how it plans to ensure a more comprehensive spread of Gaelic-medium teachers than we have at the moment.

I know that the petition is from Bowmore Primary School but, as Mike Watson has said, places such as Glasgow, which has the largest Gaelic-speaking population in the country, have problems with Gaelic-medium education. I am concerned to find that 233 primary school teachers are able to teach Gaelic but only 152 are doing so. The figures for secondary education fall to 101 teachers who are able to teach and only 26 who are doing so. We must write to the Executive to find out why teachers are not teaching in Gaelic. The Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill has been passed and people are very interested—I know that in areas of Glasgow people must go through certain stages in primary school before they can go on to the Gaelic school. The lack of teachers is preventing that from happening. We must find out why qualified teachers are not using their talents. The Executive says that it is setting up a working group. When that group examines the matter it should ask specific questions about uptake. That is my main concern.

This has been a problem over many years. We hear constantly from the Gaelic world that there are not enough teachers in Gaelic-medium education. The main reason for that is that until very recently there was no guarantee that Gaelic-medium education would continue within the education system. Teachers thought that it was likely to end early in their professional career; they were concerned that if they jumped ship to go into Gaelic-medium education, the authorities would eventually stop Gaelic-medium education in schools and they would be out of a job and find themselves in difficulty. However, the situation has changed considerably over the past two years, particularly since the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill was passed and Bòrd na Gàidhlig was established with a remit to promote Gaelic-medium education. There has been an increase in the number of graduates who are now coming into Gaelic-medium education because there is far more confidence that it will continue.

Several people have taken advantage of distance-learning courses. I understand that this year a number of graduates who come on stream will participate in Gaelic-medium education, so the situation is not all doom and gloom—great strides have been made. I am sure that there will be steady, if slow, progress to ensure that there are sufficient staff in Gaelic-medium education. We are fortunate that there seem currently to be sufficient staff in primary education who are capable of teaching in Gaelic, but provision falls down in secondary education, in which there is a shortage of such staff, which is being addressed.

I hope that in the not-too-distant future students who have an interest in Gaelic will be able to complete their primary, secondary and graduate-level education through the medium of Gaelic, particularly as the Gaelic college in Skye and Lews Castle College provide courses to assist students to graduate in Gaelic. Progress is encouraging but, as I say, the onus now rests with Bòrd na Gàidhlig to bring initiatives forward.

I agree with the previous speakers. The promises that Parliament has made must be lived up to and the efforts that are being made must be speeded up.

I do not know whether a great deal of thought has been given to Gaelic immersion courses. I understand that in the Basque Country and Catalunya such courses have been provided extensively with a great deal of success, although it has been costly. Teachers who are currently teaching but who would like to teach Gaelic could be taken for two or three years—perhaps one or two years—and taught the language before they go back into teaching. How much thought has been given to that option? Is that possible?

Someone mentioned to me the idea of golden hellos as opposed to golden handshakes. Incentives such as housing and so on could be offered to encourage people to go to areas that are seen by many folk as being not very sexy. A wee bit of help is often what is required.

Paragraph 3 of the clerk's note on the petition mentions that Bowmore Primary School does not currently have a Gaelic teacher for primary 1 to primary 3. Can we find out what is happening and when the school is likely to get such a teacher? The petitioners are concerned that the post will not be filled until August 2006.

I, too, am concerned about that. The petitioners know that it will be more than a year before children in P1, P2 and P3—the key years when children are first at school—have access to the teaching that is fundamental for children of that age. That is a problem. If we are to ask a specific question, we should ask why those classes will not have a teacher, given that the absence of a teacher might have a more detrimental impact on children in that age group than it would have on older children. I agree with Rosie Kane on that. Should we write to the Executive to ask how implementation of its plans is going?

Another fundamental problem is that people who can teach in Gaelic choose not to do so. That is crucial. I do not know what procedures are in place to encourage people to use Gaelic; perhaps people need to be incentivised.

There are plenty of people who could teach Gaelic, but there are not teachers with the professional skills to teach other subjects in Gaelic, which must be examined. We should follow the recommendation in our briefing paper—that would be sufficient.

Are members happy for the committee to write to the Executive to ascertain how the work of the Gaelic-medium education teacher recruitment and supply action group is progressing?

Members indicated agreement.

Can we ask about the problems that Bowmore Primary School is experiencing, as Rosie Kane suggested?

We could try to get an answer on that.

Can we also write to Comann Luchd-teagaisg Àrd-Sgoiltean na h-Alba, the Gaelic secondary school teachers association—John Farquhar Munro will be able to pronounce its name—and to Comann nam Pàrant and Comhairle nan Sgoiltean Araich, the Gaelic pre-school council?

There would be no harm in seeking the opinions of those organisations. We look forward to the Executive's response.

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A90 Trunk Road (Upgrade) (PE856)

PE856 calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Executive to upgrade as a matter of urgency the A90 trunk road between Tipperty and Balmedie in Aberdeenshire, in the interests of safety and the environment. Before the petition was formally lodged, it was hosted on the e-petition site, where it gathered a total of 2,606 signatures. The e-petition briefing has been circulated for members' information. Do members have comments?

Unfortunately, I have no local knowledge of the area—I wish that I did. I phoned around this morning, to Friends of the Earth Scotland for example, to try to get an environmental handle on the matter. Car traffic in the area has increased by 30 per cent in 13 years, which is a great leap. As the e-petition briefing indicates, there has been new build in the area and most people in the newly built homes have cars, so the road is very busy and potentially dangerous. I suggest that we ask Friends of the Earth Scotland and other organisations about the environmental benefits of upgrading the road. It is possible and probable that there would be such benefits in this case, as many people have claimed. We should try to find out about that.

An answer to a parliamentary question that was asked by Stewart Stevenson indicated that a decision on the upgrading of the Tipperty to Balmedie stretch of the road is imminent. It might be reasonable to write to the Minister for Transport to ask him when an announcement will be made and, indeed, when work will start, given that the Executive seems to have acknowledged that there are problems on that stretch of the road.

My colleague Nora Radcliffe, who has an interest in the petition, sent her apologies because she had to attend another meeting this morning.

I note the significant strength of feeling that is expressed in the petition. I also note that the Minister for Transport has stated that he will

"make a positive announcement about the improvement of the Balmedie-Tipperty section of the A90 as soon as possible."—[Official Report, 11 May 2005; c 16762.]

I suppose that we will need to wait for the minister's statement to hear his proposals, but the people in the area clearly desire improvements. Do we have more information on the current position?

No, but it will be worth our while to try to find out.

I apologise on her behalf for the absence of my colleague, Nanette Milne, who secured the members' business debate in which the Executive gave the response that was quoted.

Given that we previously considered a petition on the A90, would there be any virtue—I seek the convener's advice on this—in linking the two petitions so that we could consider the total upgrade of that road?

I do not know. The other petition on the A90 concerned a different stretch of the road and it raised different issues, so I am not sure whether we can easily link the two petitions.

I think that the other petition was about the A90 south of Aberdeen.

It may well have been. I think that that other petition raised different issues, but there may be no harm in linking the two petitions. If we write to the minister, we will know from his answer whether the issues are similar.

To write to the minister is the obvious thing to do.

We have been joined by Stewart Stevenson. Which petition are you here for?

I am here for the petition on the A90.

You have arrived just in time.

I apologise. I was in another committee meeting, so I have had to do some juggling of balls this morning.

I want to make a general point about the need to increase the proportion of the A90 that is dual carriageway. The committee may not have heard this before, but the prospective changes to the European working time directive could adversely affect communities that the single carriageway A90 connects to the rest of Scotland, the United Kingdom and Europe. Given that the speed limit for commercial vehicles on a single carriageway is 40mph, as against 60mph on a dual carriageway, the law will force journey times to the north to be longer. Therefore, the upgrading of the A90 involves not only road safety but the wider effects of European legislation.

PE856 seeks only to close the gap in the dual carriageway that exists south of Ellon—which is an important and heavily used part of the road—but, in the longer term, there will be wider issues associated with parts of the A90 further north. However, I am sure that the committee will want to take into account the range of issues that exist in relation to the A90.

On behalf of other colleagues who cannot be present today, I should say on a non-partisan basis that the petition has attracted widespread support, except perhaps from our Green Party regional colleague, although—in all fairness—I did not ask him for his view. However, everyone else is pretty clear about the need to address the matter.

Members have indicated that they would like more information from the Executive. Rosie Kane also asked that we take cognisance of the views of environmental groups such as Friends of the Earth. We will write to find out what the environmental take is on the issue. When we consider all the responses, we can decide what else we will do with the petition.

Did you say that we will write to the Minister for Transport or just to the Executive?

I said that we will write to the Executive, but any such letter would go to the relevant minister.

The minister's answer suggested that a statement is imminent, so we should find out exactly when that statement will be made.

We want a timetable from the Executive.

We can point out that we are looking for a timetable and for a speedy response.

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Freemasons (Membership) (PE848)

PE848 from Hugh Sinclair is on behalf of the movement for a register of freemasons. The petition calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Executive to introduce legislation requiring the Scottish Episcopal Church to bar all its clergy from membership of the freemasons or any other society having a secret oath-bound membership.

Technically, Parliament could seek to regulate the internal affairs of the church to prohibit members of its clergy from being freemasons. However, drafting of any such law would need to meet the usual legislative competence requirements, including requirements in respect of the European convention on human rights. In addition, a move to bar certain occupations—in this case, the clergy—from being members of particular organisations might fall under employment law, which is generally reserved to Westminster. Do members have any views on the petition?

You say that the matter may fall under employment law. Can we find out whether it does or does not?

I will ask Jim Johnston to comment. He has looked into the issue.

We would know that only once we had seen draft legislation. We could not judge its impact until we had seen that. It would depend on what proposals were put forward.

I sometimes question the validity of petitions, and I go by what the clerk says to get a wee bit of clarification. Is it proper or within the power of the Scottish Parliament to bar any group in this way? The petition asks for legislation

"requiring the Scottish Episcopal Church to bar all its clergy from membership of the Freemasons".

If we start doing that kind of thing, anybody could come along and ask the Scottish Parliament to bar such and such.

That is the very reason why the petition is competent—the Scottish Parliament has that authority. Whether we want to single out any individual church or organisation is a different matter. The competency of the petition is not in doubt; it has been checked and it is admissible. We could consider legislating on the issue, but whether we would want to support a petition that asked for such legislation is a different matter.

I will go by what the clerk and the convener have said. The petition is competent, but I do not think that it is right. I would not make the decision to tell one group what to do. It is up to such groups to make up their minds what they want to do, whether they be a church or anything else. I would not support the petition.

I will not support the petition, and I move that it be closed. Over the years, there have been several attempts to bring disrepute to freemasons in Scotland. The fact is that there are organisations throughout the world that have codes and practices that people are asked to respect. For that reason, it is just not practicable and it would be wrong to single out any one organisation. I move that the petition be closed.

I believe that the petition should be closed, but not for the same reasons as Helen Eadie. I think that freemasons who seek public office should be required to declare that they are freemasons, although I am not in line with the movement for a register of freemasons and the tactics that the petition suggests.

I think that the petition is ill-advised to target one specific church on the basis of what Mr Sinclair, who is a confirmed Anglican, says. It seems to be a personal issue for him, although I do not doubt that he has wider concerns about freemasons, as have I. In this case, the proposal is inappropriately targeted. Although Parliament may be able to legislate on the matter, I do not think that the suggested action would be appropriate. To legislate for a specific church would be to look at the issue from the wrong angle. The broad issue is about freemasons as an organisation—it is not about any religious organisation.

The Justice 1 Committee has already considered the issue, and we have had a series of petitions on it. We are still in dialogue with people who are concerned about the outcome of that committee's deliberations.

The Public Petitions Committee should not be surprised when it receives petitions from organisations that have an agenda to pursue. That happens all the time, and no one issue should be singled out for specific criticism when the petitions system is used in that way. All that we can do is consider whether a petition is competent and decide whether we want to do anything to assist the petition. We have to decide this morning whether we think collectively that the petition requires us to take any action in support of it.

If Parliament was to legislate as it is asked to do by the petition, that could contravene the European convention on human rights. Whatever freemasons are, they are not a proscribed or illegal organisation. It would be a retrograde step if the national Parliament was to start telling sections of the population that they could not join a particular organisation. That would be a wrong move, and I agree with other members that it is probably right to close the petition.

I agree with all that has been said, especially what Mike Watson said. We must separate out the two issues. Whether freemasons should need to declare that as an interest is one thing; what the petition asks for is completely different. This is about an individual's right to join an organisation if they wish to do so. We are not in a position to forbid anybody to do that, nor should we be. I agree that we should close the petition.

If we were to do what is suggested in the petition, we would have to be even-handed and consider organisations such as the Knights of St Columba and the Eastern Star. We could not just choose one organisation but would have to call for declarations of membership of all other such organisations. That is not to say that Mike Watson and others do not have a point, but there are all sorts of such organisations all over the world. We should close the petition.

Are members happy to close the petition?

Members indicated agreement.

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Harbours (Public Finance Legislation) (PE854)

Our last new petition under agenda item 1 is on Scotland's harbours. PE854, which is by Robert Stephen, calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Executive to pass equitable public finance legislation in respect of all Scotland's harbours, whether they are trust or council owned. The petitioner previously submitted PE716 relating to the funding of harbours in Aberdeenshire. In its initial response to PE716, the Executive stated:

"local authorities are free to allocate the vast majority of their income from non-domestic rates, council tax and the Scottish Executive revenue grant support to their local spending priorities as they determine. The Executive has no plans to amend or replace the Grampian Regional Council (Harbours) Order Confirmation Act 1987."

I will be brief. My constituent Robert Stephen represents quite a wide range of opinion in the north-east of Scotland and has also talked to people in other parts of Scotland. The background is that much of the legislation for the kind of harbours in which Robert has a particular interest is 19th century legislation. Today we are legislating to allow railways and tramways to be built and in the 19th century harbours were dealt with in a similar way. The use to which the great majority of small harbours are put has changed dramatically in the 150-plus years since the various original pieces of legislation were passed. However, there has not been a corresponding national consideration of how we can have a fair and equitable way of dealing with the financing and support of harbours around Scotland for the very different purposes that they serve, which are predominantly leisure and tourism purposes and civic amenity purposes.

Robert Stephen and his cosignatories seek simply to broaden the terms of their previous petition, which followed a similar track, in the hope that they might yet persuade the Executive that harbours are a suitable subject for it to consult on and, in due course, to legislate on. He is not asking for a particular timetable for that, as he acknowledges the heavy legislative workload that the Executive has in prospect. I encourage the committee to carry forward the petition in the hope that we might consider more broadly something that has not been considered in any meaningful way for well over 100 years and probably nearer 150 years.

I hear what Stewart Stevenson is saying, but the difference is that we have already looked extensively at the harbours issue and received a response from the Executive that made clear its view. The petition asks for legislation to be changed and the Executive has told us recently that that is not going to happen. Whether we could usefully take the petition forward is a real issue for us.

I hear what Stewart Stevenson is saying, but we have already had an answer from the Executive about its position on the specific issue raised in PE716. PE854 broadens the issue out, but the Executive has made its position abundantly clear. If you are looking for legislation to be changed, Stewart, perhaps you or others might consider introducing a member's bill. I am not here to defend the Executive, but I am keen not to waste time and public money on providing answers that we already have. I see no particular need to take forward the petition.

I support that view. The Executive response made it clear that any local authority in Scotland has the right to spend its budget as it wishes. If Aberdeenshire Council chooses to spend its budget in a particular way, it has never been this or any other committee's position to try to suck that power away from the local authority because its people are best placed to determine the needs of their areas.

Many harbours throughout Scotland are privately owned. I am sure that Rosie Kane would welcome their renationalisation, but that would be an issue because one would then have to take in the harbours of Lord Wemyss and Lord Elgin, for example, and that would create a different debate that Rosie Kane would not push to one side. The sheer pragmatism of what is proposed does not stack up. I was here when the petition was raised and a lot of work was done on it. Doing more work would take us no further forward.

I am entirely in the hands of the committee—that is a fact, of course. If the view of members is what I think I see emerging, I would be perfectly happy to speak to my constituent about John Scott's suggestion that other means could be pursued. My constituent would suggest that the focus of the Executive's previous responses related to Aberdeenshire's policy, but I hear that members believe that the Executive made its view clear on a broader basis and that that is why you are not likely to take the petition further. I shall wait to hear how committee members sum up the petition and make their decision and then I will communicate with my constituent accordingly.

Could we perhaps make the correspondence that we have received on the previous petition available to Stewart Stevenson?

Anything that is public would be fine, but it would set a dangerous precedent if we started to give MSPs documents that we would not otherwise give them.

I do not suggest that we should do anything in any way improper.

If I require assistance in that regard, convener, I will approach you, but I suspect that I will be able to track down what is required.

Do members agree to close the petition?

Members indicated agreement.

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Scottish Economy (Income Tax) (PE835)<br />National Health Service <br />(Mediation for Claims) (PE843)

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Council Houses (PE844)<br />Housing (Planning Permission) (PE845)

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Problem Debt (PE846)<br />Roads (Safe Condition) (PE851)

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Private Medical Insurance (PE852)

We will diverge from normal practice for the next petitions, which are all new petitions, but were lodged by the New Party. For that reason, I ask for agreement to consider them all together.

Members indicated agreement.

The New Party lodged the petitions separately over a few weeks—I received a couple of them in the Parliament building. All the petitions are considered to be competent.

The fact that the petitions were presented by a political party requires us to look at them slightly differently than we might do had they come from a community group. However, during the general election campaign, it was my experience that a community group that lodged a petition subsequently used a picture of the person who handed over the petition in an election leaflet. At least the New Party was honest and said that what it was doing was on behalf of a political party. Other people have used the committee to gain publicity in a more underhand way.

I am happy to hear from members about what they think we should do about the issues that have been raised.

I recommend that we note the petitions and then close them. However, other members might have other ideas. I congratulate the New Party on a very good way of getting publicity during the general election. Did any candidates stand?

The party had no candidates.

I do not remember seeing any. It was a clever way of gaining publicity at no cost and getting some nice pictures of representatives with the convener.

Perhaps the party is so new that it has not realised that political parties normally try to get elected to a Parliament instead of petitioning it. We should note the petitions and close them.

That says it all. I agree.

Are members happy that we accept the petitions as competent but close them, as no action is required?

Members indicated agreement.