Social Justice Committee, 20 Mar 2002

Meeting date: Wednesday, March 20, 2002

Official Report 222KB pdf

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Fuel Poverty

Item 4 is consideration of our response to the consultative draft of the Executive's fuel poverty statement. The Executive has published the draft; responses are invited by 31 May. The clerk has provided a paper on the background to the consultation and other aspects of fuel poverty that the committee has considered, including the issues that were raised by Communities Against Poverty and petition PE123, from the Scottish warm homes campaign. The clerk's recommendations are: that we hold an evidence session on 1 May with interest organisations; that the draft consultation be referred to the Health and Community Care Committee for its input to our response; and that the draft response be considered at our meeting on 15 May.

I will take any comments that members want to make in relation to the consultation at this stage, but I would particularly welcome specific responses to those recommendations.

It is important that the committee responds to the Executive's consultation. I generally support the clerk's recommendations. The only thing that I suggest is that we need to speak to local authorities about the consultation, given that they are heavily involved in the central heating initiative. It would be useful for us to get a flavour from local authorities of how the initiative is working. It would be useful to take evidence from local authorities, or from COSLA.

I seek the committee's agreement to the other witnesses that are listed. I assume that members would agree to add COSLA to the list. Do members wish to make further additions to the list?

I agree with the clerk's recommendations. We have to consider which organisations we should take evidence from. We should hear from the Scottish warm homes campaign. It would be excellent to hear Age Concern Scotland's view on the needs of the elderly population and on how the central heating programme is going. Like Karen Whitefield, I think that COSLA should be on the list—perhaps in place of the Chartered Institute of Housing in Scotland. I am not seeking to add to the list, but I think that COSLA would be able to give us an overview, because its member organisations feed in views about how local authorities are working with the various housing associations.

I would rather that Scottish Power was on the list in place of Transco. Metering is a reserved issue, but members will recall that when we took evidence on fuel poverty, people's ability to use the electricity that they need was, and always will be, an issue. I always remember the example of the woman who switched off her radio alarm clock at night in order to save money and reduce the amount of fuel that she was consuming. Scottish Power should be asked to come to give evidence.

I would certainly be happy to see COSLA on the list and I have no difficulty with hearing from Scottish Power. The issue of debt blocking is important and the cross-party group in the Scottish Parliament on consumer issues discussed it in great detail. It should be fundamental to the discussion and the evidence that we take.

I met Friends of the Earth Scotland recently and heard that it has a number of concerns about insulation standards. I would like that organisation to be involved. Our list appears to be growing and I am not desperate for any organisation to be removed from the list, but I would like COSLA and Friends of the Earth Scotland to be included.

Given that Friends of the Earth Scotland is part of the Scottish warm homes campaign, it should already be represented.

I realise that, having met Friends of the Earth Scotland recently. However, I think that the organisation wants to raise a number of specific issues. Perhaps it could be the representative of the Scottish warm homes campaign, which would get round the problem.

It seems from the report that measures will be monitored very well.

It would be a matter for the Scottish warm homes campaign to decide who it wants to send to give evidence. Coming to give oral evidence would not preclude anybody from providing written evidence. We might want to think of a broader group of organisations from which to seek responses; the list would need to be brief—I do not want to generate extra work for people.

I suggest that we ask the clerks to send invitations to appropriate folk to submit evidence. We can then see what will be manageable in the time that we have allocated. It is clear that there is a desire to hear from the range of organisations who are driving the issue and who are affected by it. I am sure that we want to hear from COSLA and the campaign groups.

I am certain that the Social Justice Committee wants to be inclusive rather than exclusive. The way in which we organised the evidence today—three or four organisations represented on a panel—might be one way to tackle the issue. For example, the warm homes campaign might send two or three organisations to present joint evidence and there is no reason why Transco, Scottish Power and Scottish Gas could not come and present evidence under a similar arrangement. Given the importance of the topic, we should be sure not to exclude anyone. I agree with your suggestion that we invite written evidence, convener.

Is it agreed that we seek to get a broad range of voices to give oral evidence, to be bolstered by requests for written evidence? Do we agree to refer the issue to the Health and Community Care Committee?

Members indicated agreement.

I have a small point. I think that we need to get a flavour from landlords of any practical difficulties that are emerging. I do not mean private sector landlords; I was thinking that we could take evidence from a housing association or a council. If we hear only from umbrella bodies, we might miss the flavour of the practicalities on the ground.

We will need to consider carefully the people from whom we seek comments.

As agreed earlier, item 5, which is consideration of the Scottish Executive's response to our interim report on the licensing of houses in multiple occupation, will be discussed in private.

Meeting continued in private until 12:30.