Scottish Red Ensign (PE1569)
Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to the 14th meeting in 2015 of the Public Petitions Committee. I remind everyone to switch off mobile phones and electronic devices, as they interfere with the sound system. Apologies have been received from Angus MacDonald and Michael McMahon, and I welcome Mike Russell to the meeting.
Agenda item 1 is consideration of PE1569, by George McKenzie, on the reintroduction of the Scottish red ensign. George, you have five minutes to put your case, after which members will ask questions.
Thank you, convener. Good afternoon, gentlemen and—as there are ladies present—ladies. I open my short statement by thanking the committee for the invitation to appear before it today.
Over the past 60 years, I have sailed under the red ensign as a yachtsman, under a defaced red ensign as a sea scout officer and under the white ensign as an officer of Clyde division of the Royal Naval reserve, but in the past 25 years I have noticed an increasing number of vessels wearing the Scottish red ensign around our coasts, to the extent that five vessels in Bute, including mine, now regularly fly the flag. It has become widely available through intemet flag retail outlets based mainly in England and Northern Ireland, and the Glasgow flag maker James Stevenson said that there is a steady demand for it. Despite its increasing popularity, it is an improper ensign and, under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995, it is technically illegal to wear or fly it on a British vessel.
Little did I realise that I would end up appearing in front of a parliamentary committee when, in late 2010, I was asked by a close friend to suggest a suitable nautical gift that her aunt Dr Winnie Ewing could present to the representatives of the former Scottish staple of Veere in the Netherlands to mark her retiral as the conservator of the Scots privileges at Veere. Veere was Scotland’s main trading port in the low countries from 1488 to 1789. I immediately suggested that a Scottish red ensign would be more than appropriate, for that would have been the flag flown by the merchant vessels from Scotland that traded throughout the 300 years for which Veere was the Scottish staple.
At a ceremony at Holyrood in January 2011, the ensign was presented by Winnie, to the delight of the Dutch delegation and the representatives of the political parties of the Scottish Parliament present, including the First Minister. It was that spontaneous reaction, coupled with an article I had read about the States of Jersey attaining its own voluntary or informal red ensign and a recent sighting in the Greek islands of a yacht flying a Scottish red ensign with no apparent problems from the maritime authorities, that encouraged me to find out whether and how the Scottish ensign could be legalised as an informal or voluntary ensign for Scottish vessels. That initiated the process that has led to today’s hearing.
Although my petition details the officials and authorities with whom I have corresponded, I point out that at no time during that correspondence have I received advice that a warrant application was not possible or would fail, and the only delay in the process so far has been a deferral of the issue for two years because of a recent referendum. Additionally, given that British ship registration is a reserved matter and vested with the United Kingdom’s Maritime and Coastguard Agency, I stress that my petition does not seek to replace or supersede the red ensign. If a warrant were to be granted, Scottish vessels would have the option of legally wearing either the red ensign or the Scottish red ensign.
This country has, for its size, had a major effect on the world’s maritime history. As one who was born and brought up in Glasgow beside the River Clyde, I can recall when the words “Clyde built” were held in highest regard worldwide. For more than 50 years, Rothesay was the venue for the prestigious international yacht racing event called Clyde fortnight, which was regularly supported by kings and princes and on a par with Cowes week. Yachts that had been designed and built in the yards around the Clyde estuary regularly led the field. We have become prone to forgetting how great a maritime nation we once were, and the thought that we still are in some fields has led me to think that the reintroduction of the Scottish red ensign for use by our vessels might restore some sense of identity and pride among those Scots who sail at home or abroad, albeit mainly for leisure purposes nowadays.
Those thoughts were echoed by the head of maritime administration and registrar of British ships for the States of Jersey, Piers Baker, when I asked him whether Jersey’s informal or voluntary red ensign had been successful. He said:
“We find it valuable in our advertising and in distinguishing ourselves from the United Kingdom and other members of the Red Ensign Group. Abroad in particular, owners like to fly it as it is clear statement of identity. However it has not proved so popular with local boat owners who are members of the Jersey Yacht Clubs as they already hold warrants for their club ensigns.”
It is my opinion that granting the Scottish red ensign a warrant would have the same effect in this country and would help to enhance our maritime identity. I am sure that “sailscotland”, the annual publication that promotes our magnificent sailing waters, would value it as a useful advertising tool to help to promote the wonderful sailing, harbours and marina facilities that Scotland now has to offer visiting yachtsmen from home and abroad.
Finally, I was pleasantly surprised that the 531 signatures that the petition received included a number from around the world. Of the 70 signatories who added their comments, the only one against the proposal was a member of a yacht club that already holds a warrant for a blue ensign. The number of comments was small, perhaps, but they indicated wider opinion on the matter.
Thank you for this opportunity to present my petition, convener. I commend it to members.
Thank you for your evidence, Mr McKenzie. Do members have any questions?
Good afternoon, Mr McKenzie. I was struck by the following paragraph in your petition:
“In recent years flag etiquette amongst leisure and small vessels around our coasts has deteriorated to the extent that on any day at sea you will see yachts and fishing vessels flying the Red Ensign, the Scottish Red Ensign, the Saltire, the Royal Standard or the Skull and Crossbones.”
That very graphic illustration of the issue made me wonder about the significance of the ensign that a ship or vessel flies. Is it less significant internationally such that nobody is unduly concerned by it, or is there a deeper significance to it? Was it very important at one time, given the atmosphere on the waters, and is it now less so? Clearly, if this were a matter of concern in international waters, the fact that someone was flying the skull and crossbones might suggest that they were about to take you to task.
Sadly, flag etiquette at sea has declined over the years. When I started sailing in the 1950s and 1960s, it was held in high regard. It was considered important that people always flew flags in the right place and at the right time, and that they flew the correct flags according to which yacht club they were in or which country their yacht was registered in. As I said, nowadays, if you go out in a boat, you will find everything hanging from the back of yachts, or from their masts—even dirty dishcloths, sometimes.
I find it rather sad that we have reached a stage where people no longer regard what they fly—sorry, people do not “fly” a flag; they “wear” it. I find it sad that people no longer wear a flag at the stern of their vessel. If everyone was going about wearing the red ensign or the Scottish ensign, I would be overjoyed. I would just like to see something happening about it. The Merchant Shipping Act 1995 lays down strict penalties for not flying the correct flags. The problem is that there is no enforcement procedure.
That is part of what intrigues me. If someone travels abroad as an individual, they have a passport. That is an official, legal document and they would be hard pressed to travel without it. You mentioned the 1995 act and said that, technically, to fly a Scottish ensign would be illegal. I think that you are saying that, although a formal code—almost a legally enforceable code—is at play, nobody any longer regards it as being anything other than an informal guide.
What is the significance of the flag that you fly? Is it simply a badge of identification or is there a stronger legal underpinning—or some guarantee or protection when you are at sea—from flying what is the official ensign of a country?
British ships are supposed to fly the red ensign. They might not fly it at sea, but they must fly it when leaving or entering port, and a ship must fly the flag of the country that it is registered in when it enters a foreign country. That is a legal requirement. The French in particular are very tight on which flag is being flown when a ship arrives in France. If someone is flying a flag that is not the flag of their country of registration, they are liable to be hit by a substantial fine by the French authorities.
Enforcement is up to the foreign authorities. I understand from people who have contacted me that the Scottish ensign is now accepted by the Greek authorities with no problems at all, and one of the people who wrote in about my petition said that he sailed round the world flying the Scottish ensign and it was accepted by authorities round the world. However, a nation state could turn round and say, “No—that’s an illegal flag and you will be fined for it.”
In effect, flag etiquette has changed because how it is viewed internationally has become much more relaxed.
In some countries, yes.
What you seek is for the Scottish ensign to be included in the roster of ensigns that are formally regarded as legal within the overall context, so that it is an option for individuals to choose.
Yes. At present, the only legal ensign in the United Kingdom is the red ensign. Nothing else is legal. For example—
Yes. You wish the Scottish ensign to be—
I want the Scottish ensign to be given the same level of acknowledgment as the—
In the atmosphere of informal etiquette, it is being used widely, and you would like it to be given the legal status of a formally recognised ensign.
Yes, as Jersey has done with its ensign.
Thank you.
I call Mike Russell.
Thank you for allowing me to attend the meeting, convener.
George, I must commend you for your persistence on the matter. You and I first talked about it some years ago. I will make two points and ask you for clarification of them. First, you say that you are not seeking to replace the red ensign. Am I right in thinking that the ensign that is used in Jersey is available only to ships below a certain tonnage, so that it is not imposed on large commercial carriers but is more of a leisure and small boat issue?
The Jersey informal ensign is only for vessels under 400 tonnes. The registered merchant ships still fly the red ensign; they do not have the option of flying their own informal ensign. Jersey’s informal red ensign was mainly aimed at the leisure and small craft industry and, as Piers Baker has said, it has proved popular.
14:15
It is in the leisure and small craft industry that you most often see the Scottish ensign. I have given you a photograph, which I know you have used, of the ensign flying from a yacht in Corfu harbour. You see it quite often in other countries and it draws you to the saltire but, surprisingly, one or two people have raised the option of having Scottish ensign as a matter of undermining the British merchant fleet. In reality, if a 400-tonne limit applied, it would not do that.
Secondly, the British merchant fleet has done a pretty good job at undermining itself when it comes to flags, has it not? The registration of vessels is often not in the United Kingdom. I think that you have told me before that the largest flier of the red ensign is probably a company such as CalMac Ferries, because large UK companies do not fly the red ensign; they are often registered elsewhere. For example, the largest cruise ships are registered in Bermuda or elsewhere.
Yes. As part of my research for this meeting, I had a look to find out who the biggest red ensign fliers were, and Stena Line and CalMac came out top. I find it terrible to say this, but our largest cruise liner in the world, the Queen Mary II, is registered in Hamilton, Bermuda, and sails under the Bermuda flag, as do all Cunard ships and P&O ships and cruise liners.
In other words, the proposal would not undermine the use of the red ensign and it would not undermine the British commercial fleet—
Not at all.
So it is a win-win proposal.
Mr McKenzie, you really make me proud. I am very grateful that you have brought the petition to the committee. I do not care whether the proposal undermines anybody; I care about the will of the Scottish people. If the Scottish people would like to have the flag, they should have it and our Government should accommodate it. Therefore I support your petition. Sometimes we make political statements, but this is not a political statement; it is something that we should have. We have a right to it and I see no reason why we should not have it, so good luck to you.
As there are no other questions from the members, I ask them for their recommendations.
We should recommend to the Scottish Government that it should support the proposal.
Do all committee members agree to make that recommendation?
Members indicated agreement.
Mr McKenzie, thank you for coming along and giving evidence. The committee will write to the Scottish Government asking it to make representations that an order to allow the flying of the Scottish red ensign should be adopted.
Thank you very much.
I suspend the meeting to allow for a change of witnesses.
14:18 Meeting suspended.Previous
AttendanceNext
Continued Petitions