Chamber and committees

Before I say anything about the amendments, I remind the committee of my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am a farmer in Moray, farming about 500 acres that I own and about 500 acres that I rent.

I am privileged to have red squirrels on my farm, and I want to talk about that, but I will first discuss two amendments that I welcome, starting with amendment 169, in the name of Ariane Burgess. I would be delighted if the member could explain to me why killer whales were left off the list, which surprised me. They are an important species. It may be an oversight, and that could perhaps be brought back at stage 3.

The other amendment is amendment 171, on red squirrels, which was lodged by Ross Greer. I have a great hope that red squirrels will appear across Scotland. I see that Rachael Hamilton has lodged amendments 291 to 293 in group 5, which relate to red squirrels and their management. If red squirrels are to re-establish in Scotland, they will need a lot of protection. As I am sure the convener and members will know, Moray has been declared a safe haven for red squirrels, with the aim that the species will be able to expand out from there and that populations will regrow. I hope that nothing less than that will happen.

The problem is that there are limiting factors. I am glad to see that, if the proposed provision goes into the bill, the cabinet secretary will be responsible for introducing targets and methods to ensure that red squirrels spread out. It may be unpalatable to point this out but, in order to allow red squirrels to spread out, we will have to control two species, namely pine marten and goshawks, which both prey on red squirrels extensively and are both being introduced into land that is owned by Forestry and Land Scotland in Moray. That has resulted in the demise of red squirrels in an area that has been classed as their safe haven. I hope that amendment 171 will be agreed to.

I have problems with amendment 168, and not only as a farmer. At this time of year, we are calving. Because of the change in climate, we are putting calves outside to ensure that they do not get the effects of pneumonia. That means day-old calves going outside, and they are a perfect target for lynxes. That would cause me immense problems, as it would for all farmers across Scotland.

I am always happy to engage with other parties regarding species that may have a place in Scotland. I have already suggested that there may be problems, however, and I have a bigger problem. For the past eight years, I have fought hard with local interests on the reintroduction of wildcats to Scotland, which is the most exciting project that is being undertaken in the Highlands. I wish that they were as common as they were when I was a young boy—it was not unusual to see them. The problem is that the two species—lynx and wildcat—compete for territory, and no work has been done to determine what would happen to the wildcat population were lynx to be introduced.

I have carefully watched some of the discussion groups, and people say that the wildcats that we are introducing back into Scotland through the wildlife park at Aviemore are not fully certified as wildcats. However, they are as close to wildcats as we can get, I would think, at 70 to 80 per cent pure genetics. As I am sure the cabinet secretary is aware, to lose those genetics so as to introduce lynx may well result in the cabinet secretary and whoever introduces the lynx being liable to a charge of ecocide, should the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill be passed.

I will not speak to amendment 5, because I believe that I have already made my points in relation to it and I know that you are short of time, convener. Thank you for allowing me to speak to the amendments in the group.

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the 33rd meeting in 2025 of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee. I welcome to the meeting Sarah Boyack, who is attending as a substitute member for Monica Lennon for consideration of the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill. Under rule 9.13A of our standing orders, Monica Lennon is not entitled to exercise the rights of a committee member in relation to the bill, because she is the member in charge of the bill. That means that she cannot participate as a committee member in any item of business that relates to the bill. However, as we can see, Monica is present for the evidence session and, as is the case with all other members of the Scottish Parliament when they attend a committee, she will be entitled to ask some questions at the end of the session.

I would like to make everyone aware that, at an appropriate moment after 10:50, I will pause the meeting to allow members to observe the armistice day two-minute silence in the garden lobby. I have said to the witnesses that I will escort them to the event if they are here at that time and would like to attend.

Under our first item of business, do committee members agree to take in private item 3, which is consideration of the evidence that we will have heard earlier in the meeting on the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill, including consideration of our approach to further scrutiny at stage 1?

Members indicated agreement.

I will bring in Iain Batho, followed by Rachael Weir and Murdo MacLeod. That will put them out of the pain of waiting.

Douglas Lumsden has a supplementary question.

Rachel Killean wants to come in on that point. At this stage, I will say that I always try to balance the answers and the questions, and I have to live with all the committee members after today, so, if I run out of time and cannot let them get their questions in, I get into trouble with them and my life becomes difficult. Therefore, I am looking for short questions and short answers.

I wanted to have a hard stop at 20 past 12, so I am afraid that I will have to stop here, as we are seven minutes past that.

I thank all the panel members for giving evidence in such detail today. I give special thanks to Rachel Killean, as it is nearly half past 11 at night where she is. It shows remarkable fortitude that she can give evidence that late in the evening—I am not sure that I would be able to.

We will now move into private session.

As no other members have questions to ask, I will bring in Monica Lennon.

We are, indeed.

Suwita, do you want to comment on that?