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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 November 2025
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Displaying 1848 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Michael Marra

At the start of the meeting, you said that the letter presented by the Funding Council identified two elements where there were problems and that you were told not to progress with reorganisation or with redundancies. Those two elements were therefore rejected, but you have not been impeded from taking action on them. From conversations I have had in the past week, I understand that the information about the reorganisation went out in an email to staff, who say that it is progressing although, at the time, they had heard from the Government that it would not be allowed. Setting aside for a moment the real human consequences of redundancies, there is a lack of clarity and people still do not really know what is happening. Do you accept that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Michael Marra

When are we likely to see an outcome on that? I believe that there was some concern from court members about whether they might be liable with regard to that loan. The latest that we heard was that the loan was to be effectively turned into a grant. Is that not the case?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Michael Marra

I am afraid that we have already asked—the committee has had members of the Funding Council in front of it—and clarity was not forthcoming.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Michael Marra

In that case, I will turn to progress on governance, which various members have touched on. One of the first recommendations in the Gillies report was about the presentation of financial reports to court. The convener has already touched on the lack of transparency in that respect, and you are going to reflect on that. Do you feel that sufficient financial information is now being presented to court?

I will take Mr Hamill first on that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Michael Marra

Do ministers and their advisers understand that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Michael Marra

I welcome that assurance.

On the issue of borrowing, we have talked about capital availability, which has been a significant concern of ministers and their advisers in my discussions with them. They want to see quick access to borrowing. Can you give a timeframe for that, Mr Hamill?

It is heartening for me to hear that you are having those conversations, and I am sure that ministers will be heartened given their focus on the issue, but what is the timescale given the on-going concerns, financial tests and EBITDA requirements? Might commercial lending be available to meet the capital requirements, so that you can stop cutting jobs in order to pay for them?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Michael Marra

I will come back to the Funding Council. I can tell you that I have been asking for a meeting with the minister with responsibility for colleges and higher education since he was appointed, but I have yet to get a response. I am really concerned that the matter is not commanding more of the minister’s attention. I will leave that point there.

I turn to the Funding Council. I have conversations all the time with university staff who get in touch about different issues, and I had one yesterday with two members of staff who are still completely unclear as to the status of the plan. The committee will perhaps have been given a little more clarity about it today. Will there be a plan? Will we see a published plan, or will we not?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Michael Marra

Thank you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Michael Marra

But not to ministers. I think everyone here was quite surprised by your answer, Professor Seaton, when you were asked when you had last had a conversation with a Government minister. You said that it was with Jenny Gilruth in August and that you have never spoken to the current Minister for Further and Higher Education. Given the rhetoric that we have heard from the Government, I had assumed that, on day 1 in his post, Mr Macpherson would have said that one of the five top things on his to-do list would be to have a conversation with Nigel Seaton.

You have described this as being one of the biggest crises in a British university since the second world war. Let me give you a quote. On 3 April, in the Parliament chamber, John Swinney said to me:

“I assure Mr Marra that there is no absence of leadership on that question, which is commanding a huge amount of the Government’s time, attention and focus”.—[Official Report, 3 April 2025; c 25.]

However, you have not had a conversation with the higher education minister, who has now been in post for two months. That is extraordinary, is it not? Have you tried to have a conversation with him?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Michael Marra

Is that the £12 million, initially? Will you give us the quantum for that?