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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 9 September 2025
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Displaying 918 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

New Deal for Business

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Daniel Johnson

Does anyone else want to grasp the nettle of non-domestic rates?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

New Deal for Business

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Daniel Johnson

In the interest of completeness, I note that the issue of non-domestic rates reform was highlighted to us before the meeting. Do you feel that there is an appetite to look at that? It is a bit of a perennial chestnut from the business community. I need to declare an interest, because I bear the scars of having gone through the appeals processes for revaluation. To me, it looked as though there was a very wide discrepancy between what I was asked to pay by the assessor and the rent that I was actually having to pay for my units. I think that the system is a bit dysfunctional.

Is there an appetite to look at reform of non-domestic rates? Is there active engagement about how we might review the system? I am looking at Lorna Slater, who is sitting to my left, and thinking about things such as a land value tax as an alternative to non-domestic rates. Is there an appetite to look at the fundamental change that the business sector wants to see?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

New Deal for Business

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Daniel Johnson

Not to worry. I probably need to move on.

A key focus of the new deal for business was the regulatory review group. I wonder whether the witnesses feel that progress has been made there. I ask Colin Borland to comment first, as Sara Thiam answered the previous question.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

City Region and Regional Growth Deals

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Daniel Johnson

Further to that, my understanding is that the exascale computer is still part of live discussions. I was discussing the issue just yesterday with the principal of the University of Edinburgh. I want to confirm whether that is the Deputy First Minister’s understanding. Is it also her understanding that that decision will be made in the spending review, which we expect in the summer?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

City Region and Regional Growth Deals

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Daniel Johnson

To clarify, it was the Secretary of State for Scotland who said that the decision would be a feature of the spending review.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

City Region and Regional Growth Deals

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Daniel Johnson

What you have just said relates to my final question, so I will ask that before you bring in your team to respond to my question about the formal metrics.

Do you view the growth deals as just another means of delivering projects, or do you view them as the principal means of delivering infrastructure, particularly regional infrastructure? If the latter, that has quite a big bearing on how we think about things such as the medium-term financial strategy and the spending review, which we have talked about. Are the deals the primary means of delivery, or are they just one means of delivery?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

City Region and Regional Growth Deals

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Daniel Johnson

I always think that the way to value something is in comparison with the best alternative forgone. Is there a way that you can measure the value of the growth deals compared with what we would have if they did not exist?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

City Region and Regional Growth Deals

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Daniel Johnson

We are in danger of Ivan McKee becoming a moveable transaction himself and leaving to go elsewhere, so I conclude there. Thank you very much for your answers.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

City Region and Regional Growth Deals

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Daniel Johnson

I accept that there may not be an answer to this, and I accept that tracking delivery against what was promised is important at project level, but what I am asking is slightly different. Can we demonstrate at that aggregate level that the growth deal structures are delivering additional value over and above just being a mechanism for delivering projects? That is probably too esoteric a question. If we are saying that this is a good vehicle for delivering projects, it is interesting to ask whether we can demonstrate that and measure that benefit.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

City Region and Regional Growth Deals

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Daniel Johnson

That is an interesting and helpful set of observations. We could hold a whole evidence session on that issue.

At the beginning of the session, you described growth deals as being primarily about delivering economic growth. However, listening to the evidence, I have found it interesting that the benefits are less about gross value added and more about efficiency of working and collaboration. Is that the correct assessment? Is there a way of measuring the value of what they have delivered, or is it just a case of the deals making it easier to do the work? Do you have a formal set of metrics for the more mature deals, for example, and can you demonstrate the GVA or other economic value that would not be there if those deals did not exist?