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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 30 April 2025
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Displaying 4776 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Sarah Boyack would like to come in at this point.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Welcome back. I should have said at the start of the meeting that we had received apologies from Bob Doris, who is unable to attend.

Before we continue, Kevin Stewart would like to make a declaration of interests.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Edward Mountain

It is funny—in the 10 years that I have been sitting on transport committees in the Parliament, I have heard the exact same thing about declining bus use and how we have to integrate transport to make sure that it works. Unfortunately, it appears that it is still the same story 10 years on, and you are telling us the same story that I was told in 2016. It does not appear that we have come very far.

My question is on the concessionary travel scheme for under 22-year-olds and antisocial behaviour orders. Are the two linked? In the previous panel, we heard from an MSYP who said that it is not young people who are causing the problem. Is antisocial behaviour a problem? Has the level of antisocial behaviour changed as a result of the concessionary bus scheme or not? Is there also a problem with young people on trains? I am sure that Douglas Lumsden will refer back to his earlier questions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Mark Ruskell, you wanted to come in, and Jackson Cullinane wants to come in as well. If you ask your supplementary question to Jackson first, he might be able to answer the two questions as one.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Michael, did you want to ask a question on hydrogen?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Kevin Stewart has a follow-up.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Before we go any further, Kevin Stewart, you asked the question that Mr Lumsden wanted to ask, so I will bring him in on hydrogen. We all need to be careful. We all want to ask questions all the time, but we cannot. Douglas, do you want to ask any questions on that issue?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Okay—fine. I do not want to hog the discussion, so we will move on to the next question, which comes from Mark Ruskell.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Edward Mountain

I accept that too, but my point is that it is costing Scotland £300 million a year more to run the railways than that cost under Abellio. It is costing more, the public performance measure target is further from being reached and fewer trains are running, so I am trying to understand why that is good for Scotland.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Edward Mountain

If you have any questions, we will bring you in at the end.

Item 3 is an evidence session on the state of Scotland’s rail and bus sectors. Today, we will hear from two panels. The first includes representatives from rail and bus passenger groups, and the second panel includes witnesses representing rail and bus sector staff. Next week, we will hear from bus and rail operators, companies and sector representatives.

I am pleased to welcome Greig MacKay, who is the Bus Users UK director for Scotland. Greig is joining us remotely. Islay Jackson MSYP is the deputy convener of the transport, environment and rural affairs committee of the Scottish Youth Parliament, and Robert Samson is senior engagement manager at Transport Focus.

We will move straight to questions. I will ask the first question, which is always a gentle warm-up for the panel. Do you perceive the continuing reduction in bus services as having any impact on passengers, especially those who are reliant on buses to access educational, work and social activities? Evidence from rural areas and areas where there are fewer buses would be useful.

Greig MacKay, will you start with that? We will check that the connection is working. I am told that a volunteer is as good as a pressed person, so off you go.