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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 November 2025
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Displaying 6348 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Thank you, Sarah—there is nothing like being told what to do as convener by a committee member. I might refer to those later questions that you wanted to ask. [Laughter.]

To make it clear, when I talked about a river earlier, I was not referring to the River Spey. If I had been, I would have had to declare an interest. In case anyone thinks that I was, I declare that I have an interest in the River Spey.

Let us move on to penalties. The penalties are 20 years in prison and an unlimited fine. That is massive. Is that required—yes or no?

Jamie Whittle can go first.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

That is an interesting situation, because I do not think that doing something that you know is wrong is a defence for doing that act. History has proven that saying that you are following orders is not a good enough excuse for doing something wrong. I was not quite sure that I had followed the previous issue.

The deputy convener mentioned an unlimited fine and 20 years in the nick. An unlimited fine might mean nothing if you get a huge bonus, whereas a fine of £500 for somebody who has very little income, perhaps a crofter, might be massive and might be a death knell to their business, so I do not quite understand how that range works. One of the suggestions was to link fines to the turnover of the organisation. How do you feel about that? Scottish Water has a massive turnover and a massive amount of money, and it could pay a massive fine. A crofter on the west coast has very little turnover and should get only a very little fine. What do you think? Professor Parsons, do you want to refute that comment?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

That is an interesting idea—because it is a public sector organisation, it does not get a fine. I am sure that that is not quite how you would put it, but that is my interpretation.

Jonnie, what are your views on that?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

I call Sarah Boyack—but very briefly, please.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

It might then be a matter of who in the Government you would hold accountable.

Mark Ruskell may ask a supplementary question, if it could be a really quick one, please.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

That was quite a long question, but I am going to squeeze the time that you have to answer it. Please be as succinct as possible.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

This morning’s two evidence sessions have raised a heap of questions on the bill that the committee will want to consider. We might want to discuss some hypothetical situations so that we understand what could happen. The evidence has been really helpful. I thank the witnesses and ask them to leave the room as quickly as possible, because we are up against the clock and about to go into private session.

12:04 Meeting continued in private until 12:59.  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Petition

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Edward Mountain

 

09:39  

Our third item of business is consideration of petition PE2123, which has been submitted by Asthma and Lung UK Scotland and asks the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to amend the Air Quality Standards (Scotland) Regulations 2010. The petitioner wants new limits to be set for nitrogen dioxide and fine particulate matter in order to align with the World Health Organization’s 2021 air quality targets.

The committee first considered the petition in April, and we agreed to write to the Scottish Government for an update on its review of the second cleaner air for Scotland strategy. The Scottish Government responded on 22 April; and when we considered the petition again, on 13 May, we agreed to write to stakeholders who responded to our 2023 air quality report, along with a few other interested parties, highlighting the Scottish Government’s response and seeking their views.

Paper 2 sets out some options for further scrutiny, which include writing to the Government and closing the petition, if we consider that appropriate. Do members have any views on what has been suggested in the paper?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Petition

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Let me see if I can summarise all of that, if I may.

I think that we are suggesting that we write a letter to the Government, drawing its attention to the evidence that we have received on this matter as well as the recommendations from various organisations that the Government consider alignment with the World Health Organization’s strategy. We will also ask the Government for its views on where we are and make sure that it is logged that, when the cleaner air for Scotland 2 strategy comes up for review, our successor committee is kept informed.

That is the basis on which we are agreeing to close the petition. If we are happy with that—and as I do not see anyone violently shaking their head, I guess that we are sort of happy—I ask the committee to delegate power to me to sign off the letter to the Government on the petition and to write to the petitioner on the committee’s behalf, thanking them for bringing this matter to our attention so that we could work on it. Is the committee happy with that?

Members indicated agreement.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Petition

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Edward Mountain

I think that that concludes all the things that we are doing in public this morning.

09:46 Meeting continued in private until 10:39.